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by


Ralph Leonard Kaye


©1979


(continued)

On the back of a letter my father wrote “Rev. A. S. Kay, Frankford, Ross Co. Ohio, son of Byron Kay.” You will note Dad omitted the E from the Kaye name. Also there was ”D. S. Kaye, 2419 N Washington, Chicago” and ”Sydney Collins,” Spokane, Wash., son of Tamar and “Sam Collins.” The postmark on the empty envelope was ”JY.1O, 1913, Point Kaye, Ontario,” so it appeared he must have written to someone in Point Kaye and gotten these names on the envelope, but I can so far find no letter. My sister and I will look farther in the old stuff she has in some trunks. All the items I am copying came from inside our old family Bible, and most of them are unknown to me until this year. However I must have some address because I did write James Kaye in 1931 and received an answer from his son Norman Kaye, which I will copy in due order.


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Point Kaye, Ontario Canada,
30 July 1913.

Mr. Walter J. Scafe,
Neck City, Mo.,

Dear sir :-

Replying to your inquiry of the 24th inst. I may say that Charles Kaye has been dead about 16 or 17 years. His wife followed him to the grave about a year later. His brother James Kaye Sr. is farming near Bracebridge, and has a numerous family, all grown up. The descendants of the late Charles Kaye, are James Kaye Jr., Point Kaye; Walter B. Kaye, Hutton House; Hannah Kaye, dead; Abel Kaye, dead; Mary (Mrs. J. B. Stroud) at present at Hutton House; Sarah with her sister Eliza (Mrs. John Hewlett), Beaumaris ; and there are numerous grandchildren. I am handing your letter to James Jr. who will probably write you and acquaint all the others, or I will do so when I see them.

Any further information you may need, I will gladly furnish you with.

Yours Truly,
F. Butler.

Charles Kaye’s brother Ely I believe is dead, but his brother Ben, I think is still living, I don’t know where he is at present.


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Point Kaye, Ontario, Aug. 18, 1913

Mr. Scafe

Dear Sir:-

I have received a letter from the Postmaster at Point Kaye that you sent to him, making enquiries about my father, Charles Kaye. Well I am his oldest son James. Father has been dead 16 years 3rd of last June, and mother is dead 13 years last December. I remember Father talking about your father, Joseph Scafe. I also remember Aunt Eliza speaking of him. I. suppose you knew Aunt lives in Guelph. She is very sick at present, and the Dr. says she can not last long. You knew she is an old woman now. Her youngest daughter Bertha was here a few days ago and I showed her your letter and she said that they would write to you when they got home. Bertha lives in Preston, Ontario, and her name is Mrs. Robert McGilvery. Uncle James lives 15 miles from here, his Post Office is Bracebridge. Uncle Lewis Kaye lives in county of Wellington and his P.O. is Olivet. My sister Hannah and my brother Abel have both died, since Father and Mother. My brothers and sisters are now, Mrs. John Hewlett, Mrs. J. E. Stroud, Amanda and Sarah, Walter and Myself. Oh yes I nearly forgot my brother Jack. He does not live in Muskoka so you can understand how I nearly forgot him. I would like to hear from you or better still, see you. Is your Father and Mother still living and can you tell me how your father and mine are related? I know they are cousins but how ?

They have a great tourist resort here. Come and see what a homely set we are. Hoping to hear from you, I believe I can claim to be some kind of a cousin.

Yours Truly,
James Kaye,
Point Kaye P.O.


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Windem, Minn., 7/29/1913

Mr. Walter J. Scafe,
Neck City, Mo.

Dear Sir :

I am in receipt of a letter addressed to my father Samuel Collins. He died in 1882 but my mother is still living, at present in Minneapolis, Minn., at 3442 Elliot Ave. N. Her maiden name was Tamar Kaye. I am sending your letter to her.

Respectfully yours,
T.C. Collins.

(Enclosures were a card of the Farmer’s State Bank of Windem, T. C. Collins, Pres., and the letter was on the letterhead of Windem Roller Mills, T. C. Collins and son, Prop.)


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Hutton House, Muskoka, Ontario,
August 9, 1913.

Mr. W. J. Scafe,
Neck City,
Montana, U.S.A. (somehow it got to Missouri)

Dear Sir :-

I have seen Mr. Butler, the Point Kaye Postmaster you wrote to, wanting to know of Charles Kaye. Father is dead 16 years last June while Mother died about fourteen months later. The last I heard of Uncle Abel, about three years ago, he was in the west. Uncle Ben. is also somewhere in the west.

I am Charley Kaye’s fourth son. My address is Hutton House. If you get this letter write and let me know.

W B Kaye
Hutton House, Yours Truly,
Muskoka. Walter B. Kaye.


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Guelph, Ontario, Aug. 26, 1913

Dear Sir:-

I have just returned from a short vacation in Muskoka. While there my cousin Mr. James Kaye, showed me your letter asking for information about your relation. My name is Mrs. R. A. McGilvery, formerly Bertha Laurance. My mother’s name was Eliza Kaye, sister to late Charles Kaye of Muskoka and Mrs. S. Collins of Minneapolis. My home is in Preston, Ontario, but mother lives in Guelph, Ontario I am here at present for a few days, so I am writing to you from here. Mother was 81 years of age last February, but she has been very sick all summer. I do not see much change in her condition either, she is very bright and talks about her young days quite often. We had a letter from Aunt Tamar lately, (Mrs. Sam Collins) and she enclosed your note to mother. I have often heard mother speak of your father, Joseph Scafe. You did not say if he was living or not. You said you were the youngest son. I am the youngest girl of our family. Mother says there was a George Scafe she used to play with. So when you write, you can tell us, perhaps, the relationship.

Mother’s family-
Charles Kaye (Muskoka) dead
James Kaye, Bracebridge, living
Abel Kaye, Wisconsin, living as far as we know, have not heard from him in years.
Byron, is dead.
Henry is dead
Benjamin Kaye, Moose Jaw.
Eliza Kaye (Mrs. E. Laurance) Guelph, Ontario, our mother.
Tamar Kaye (Mrs. S. Collins), Minneapolis, Minn.
Louis Kaye, Olivette, Ontario
Reuben, dead.
Eli, dead, three half brothers of the family.

Of our own family of eleven, nine children and mother are living. Our father will be dead 20 years the 24th of Sept. The rest are:-
Mrs. Geo. Marsh, Detroit, Mich.
Mrs. B. F. Phillips, Akron, Ohio.
Mrs. Chas. Bedur.
Mrs. Wm. McCasland, Preston, Ontario
Mrs. R. A. McGillivray, Preston, Ontario
Mr. E. Laurance, Preston, Ontario
Mr. Geo. Laurance, Burke’s Falls ,Ontario
Miss E. Laurance, at home with mother.

I might just say we have lots of trouble this summer, my brother-in-law, Bedur, took up temporary insanity in June and is still confined in a sanitarium there and Mother ill for over two months and not expecting that she will get better, and my brother-in-law Phipps was buried Aug. 17, just being ill a couple of days.

Well we will be pleased to hear from you, any other information I can give you I will be pleased to do the same. Mother would be pleased to hear from you. I remain

Yours Truly,
Mrs. R. A. McGillivery, Preston,
Ontario

[Author's Note.- I notice in the above transcription, the name McGillilivery had been spelled three different ways.]


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Guelph, Ontario, Sept. 12. 1913

Mr and Mrs W J Scafe
Neck City, Mo.

Dear Cousins:-

Yours to hand, so pleased to hear from you. I hope I will be able to give you a little information regarding your inquiries. Thanking you for your kind inquiries after my health. I am not any better, I am bedfast. It is dropsy and heart trouble, that is my complaint.

I will not be able perhaps to give you as much information as you would like as I was only ten years of age when we came out to this country and I have never seen any of them since we left England, and as I am now eighty-one years of age you will readily see that during that long interval I will have forgotten many things but I will do my best. You asked me how I am related to Joseph Scafe, your father. Your grandfather Miles Scafe was married to my father’s sister. Her name was Kaye, I think Martha, but not sure, that making your father and myself first cousins. I was born in Kirkburton, Yorkshire, five miles from Huddersfield, and we left that place when we came to Canada. Miles Scafe and family lived in the same place as we did when we left, we were within a stone’s throw of each other. Uncle Miles first wife died in England. I was about four or five years old and I have just a faint recollection of Aunt being sick and dying, but I was so small and young. I remember Uncle Miles better and knew he was a widower and lived with his two children and the only conclusion I can come to is that perhaps he was born when his mother died and he, George, was taken by other people and raised. You will see what I mean by reading the enclosed letter which I received from your father some forty years ago.

I do not know of Uncle Miles having any full brothers, but I well remember him having a half brother, a soldier, and of him being home in England on furlough before we left. Uncle Miles came out to this country some two or three years after we did, and settled in Michigan, and your father used to write to my brother Henry. It is his death he refers to in enclosed letter.

I do not know anything of that George Abishere Scafe born in Sheffield

We heard of Uncle Miles marrying a second wife in Michigan but I do not know any particulars.

I would be pleased to see you both if you cared to come to Guelph on a trip. I am sure it would do me good to see the children of my cousin and playfellow.

I am enclosing to you a letter which I received from your father and which may contain some things you would like to know. It is forty years old last May, so you may keep it and treasure it as a heirloom.

Hoping this information may be of some benefit to you, hoping to hear from you again, but better pleased to see you both. Will close with love

From Your Cousin,
Mrs E Laurence,
30 Neeve Street,
Guelph, Ontario, Canada.


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Preston, Jasper Co., Mo., May 4th 1873

Dear Cousin Eliza :-

I received your kind letter of Apr. 10th on Thursday May 2nd. It was forwarded to me by the Postmaster of Wheeling to this address, that accounts for it being so long in getting here. I sold my store and goods in Wheeling one year ago and bought me a farm here in southwest Missouri. I gave four thousand dollars for it. 185 acres,- an improved farm. There is a peach and apple orchard, about sixty acres broke on it, a good spring brook runs through it and three good springs of water on it. The climate I like first rate, and here we are not troubled with deep snows or very cold weather. Father he died four years ago last November with dropsy, he had not been well for two years before he died. He had three boys by the woman he married in this country and they were all grown up so that they did all the work. He was very comfortably situated before he died. He had a farm of two hundred acres all paid for, a good frame house on it. My sister Harriet still lives in England. She got married after we left there to a man named Henry Martin. She had eight children last I heard from her. Brother George he came to America here with the folks that raised him and about three years after we came. Last I heard from him he was living in Ridgeway, Michigan. He came to Wisconsin and lived with me two years and then went back to Michigan to the folks that raised him and I have not heard from him since.

You write that cousin Henry is dead. I feel very sorry that he died in the prime of life and leaving a large family of children to mourn his loss and some of them not able to take care of themselves. I was in hopes of seeing Henry before long if he had lived. I thought as much of him as I would of my own brother. I well remember that when we lived in England that he never passed our house without stopping in to see me and also on Sunday morning he would come in and wait for me to go to Sunday school. But I must close my letter for I cannot write any more at present. For the tears are running down my face. Write as soon as you get this and I will write you particulars of families. If you have a directions of our or your folks in England send them to me.

From Your Dear Cousin,
Joseph Scafe.

Send me word how all you are and where they are, with love.


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Milford Bay, Muskoka, Ontario,
Feb. 20th, 1931.

Mr Dennis V Scafe,

Dear Sir :-

I have before me your letter addressed to my father, James Kaye of Point Kaye and passed on to me. My father having died in 1923.

I have delayed answering until I had tried to secure some information which might be of some advantage to you, and I am sorry I have not succeeded, My grandfather Charles Kaye and his brother James came from England when grandfather was about 8 years old and settled at Port Rouen, coming to Muskoka about 1868, when my father was about 12 years old, and settled on Lake Muskoka at what was known later as Point Kaye Post Office.

Grandfather has a half brother Louis Kaye still living at R. R. no.1 Arthur, Ontario, who might possibly be able to give you the information you desire. All the boys are or were farmers. The only instance I can find of any one by the name of Scafe is a little information by my Aunt Eliza (my great Aunt) and I believe the one you refer to in your letter occasionally and dicovered they were related, but she does not remember how. She is 76 years old now and her memory is very poor. I will gladly send you any information I may pick up later.

I am a builder and contractor myself and have lived near Beaumaris and Milford Bay all my life. It is quite a popular resort and right on the highway. If you ever make a trip to Muskoka, Ontario, I will not be hard to locate and would be glad to have a talk with you.

Yours Very Truly,
Norman Kaye.


In a letter written to me by Mr. Eugene T. Scafe of Woodbury, N.J., on June 19, 1975, he sent me a copy of some additional information he had acquired on his recent trip to England, concerning the brother and sisters of James Kaye, who migrated to Canada in 1842. It went thus:-

Husband:- Kaye, George, of Greenside
Wife:- Elizabeth, buried, 4th May, 1825, at Emely Moor, age 39
Children:-
--James, born 1803
--Mary, born 1 Apr., 1804, at Emely, Yorkshire County, Eng.
--Martha, born 15th Jan., 1806,at Kirkburton, Yorkshire, Eng.; arried Miles Scafe on 6th Feb., 1826; died on 24th Sept.,1832.
--Harriot, born 10th Apr., 1808 at Kirkburton, Yorkshire, Eng.
--Sarah, born 13th Dec., 1813 at Kirkburton, Yorkshire, Eng.
--George, born 1816, and died 26th June, 1819
--Betty, born 1818,and died 18th July, 1819

After a number of years of collecting family names, and birth, death, and marriage information on our family line, I have come to realize how easy it is to make an error in the documentation of these dates if one isn’t careful.

My brother Wilford and I have spent some time searching records for knowledge of the father of Charles Kaye, as to where he lived, and what he worked at, and where and when he died, and where he is buried.

In the archives there is a notation that lists Charles Kaye, Fergus, 1867, James Findly & Co.--also saw mill proprietor.

I have no knowledge concerning the implications of that data.

I received a letter from Alvin Kaye of Palmerston, that he had written on Mar. 29th, 1975, in which he asked about Kay’s along the St. Lawrence. When I replied, I asked him to have his son look through his old photos and see if he had a picture of Henry Kaye, brother of Charles. I received an answer that he had written on Apr. 25, 1975, in which he said he didn’t think they had a picture of Henry Kaye, but there was a picture of him in his mother’s photo album, because he had seen it, but he didn’t know where it was. One bit of information that is very interesting is a Wellington County census for 1851---

Wellington County Census 1851

James Kay, weaver, born in England, Eng. Church, age next B. D. 49
Mary, wife, born in England, Eng. Church, age next B. D. 44
Abel, born in England, Eng. Church, age next B. D. 14
James, born in England, Eng. Church, age next B. D. 9
Benjamin, born in England, Eng. Church, age next B. D. 7
Elie, born in England, Eng. Church, age next B. D. 6
Luie, born in England, Eng. Church, age next B. D. 3
Rheuben J. Teron, born in England, Eng. Church, age next B. D. 1

Lived in a frame house, 1 story, 1 family.

The documentation was a little confusing to me and I was not sure of the township.

The ages mentioned as well as the names works out fairly well for the James Kaye 1841 census of Kirkburton, in England, which was given previously. The letter from Eliza (Mrs Laurence) to Mr Scafe, pinpoints the year of migration to Canada as 1842. The trade of James Kaye of Kirkburton was the same as the trade of the above mentioned James Kay of the Wellington 1851 census. I believe the English record and the Canadian record to be of the same person. The fact that there was no E on the Kay in the Wellington census is not too disturbing because that has been a common error in the spelling of our name, down through the ages. The names of the children were so similar it could not be ignored. Two members, descended from the second wife whose name was Mary told me she was of French descent. It seems to be reasonable to assume that may have had some influence on the difference in spelling of Eli, and Lewis. Each time someone wrote a letter and mentioned the names of Eli, Lewis, and Reuben, there was a difference in spellings, of these members names:-

Abel, James, Benjamin, Elie, Luie, Rheuben J Teron---
Abel, James, Benjamin, Eli, Lewis, Simeon Reuben Levi---

The first of the two lines of names was the way the Wellington County Census spelled them in 1851 which could be the way a census taker might have spelled Eli and Lewis if Mary had pronounced it for him. The second line of names was the way Charles Kaye spelled the names of his three youngest brothers, in the letter he wrote to Mr Scafe on Sept. 5th 1881. He also mentioned in the same letter that his father had died 23 years before, and that his mother had died 36 years before, when his brother Benjamin was born. That would partly explain my failure to find further evidence of the death of James Kaye as I had been looking under the year 1851 instead of about 1858. If as I believe and Eugene T Scafe believes, that the two census reports are of one and the same person, then the lineage would go about like this :-

GEORGE KAYE listed in the Emely Parish register and the Kirkburton, Yorkshire, census of 1841 married Elizabeth born Figuratively about 1786, and was buried May 4th 1825 age 39 in Emely Moor. They apparently had 7 children. James, of whom hereafter. Mary, data on previous page. Martha., born 15 Jan., 1806, Kirkburton, died 24 Sept., 1832, married Miles Scafe 6 Feb., 1826, three children Harriet, Joseph, and George. 4th child of George and Elizabeth was Harriot, 5th Sarah, 6th George and 7th Betty, data on previous page.

JAMES KAYE son of George Kaye was born in Yorkshire 1803, died presumably in Wellington County, Ontario, Canada, about 1858. married first Hannah, born in Yorkshire, about 1811, died in Ontario, Canada, 1844-45. Migrated to Canada from Kirkburton, Eng. in 1842, with six children, Charles, Henry, Eliza, Tamer, Biron, and Abel. Two more sons were born to Hannah in Ontario, James, and Benjamin. Upon the birth of the latter Hannah died. He secondly married Mary, about 1844-45, and by her had three sons: Eli, Lewis, and Reuben.

CHARLES KAYE son of James , born in Yorkshire Sept. 14, 1826, died in Muskoka, Ontario, Canada, June 3, 1897. Migrated to Canada from Kirkburton,with parents, in 1842. Married Sarah Smith, a Scottish girl, who was born in Glasgow in May 1831 and died Dec. 2, 1899 in Muskoka. She migrated to Canada with her parents, James Smith, who died May, 1875 age 72 yrs. and Sarah his wife who died June 1875 age 82 yrs. Charles and Sarah and her parents are all buried in a cemetery plot in Milford Bay with a headstone for all four of them. It may be possible that Charles and Sarah were married in Minto twp. of Wellington County, Ontario as my grandfather James was born there on Jan.1, 1857. Charles Kaye and his family migrated to Muskoka in 1869 to a spot on Muskoka Lake which was later named Point Kaye in his honour, and where he was subsequently appointed first Postmaster of Point Kaye Post Office. He was also Justice of the peace for a time period including the year 1881.

The 1881 letter from Charles lists fifteen children to this marriage : Hannah, Sarah, third, dead, 4th Eliza, 5th Mary, 6th James, 7th Abel, 8th John, 9th Jane dead, 10th Walter Bruce, l1th William Henry, 12th Amanda Sophia, 13th, 14th, and 15th all dead.


* * * * *

Footnote:
This document was scanned and then corrected in Microsoft Word 97 by in 1998.
As of March 1999 the author (Ralph Kaye) is alive and residing in a nursing home in
Port Dover, Ontario, Canada and is pleased that his document will be available to all.


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