Group 2 Anglins

Contents

• Summary of Participants
  
  
• Summary of Findings
  
  
• Recruiting Goals
  
  
• Documents::           Will of William Anglin (d. 1803, Caswell County, NC)           Will of John Carver Anglin
  
  
• Pedigree Pages with Photographs:           A8           A17           A22           A26           A31           A58          
  
  
• Test results
  
  
• Map of Irish Origins
  
  
• The A17, A22, & A36 dilemma
  
  
• Canadians' Chart
  
  
• Colonial American Descendants' Mutation and Lineage Chart
  
  
• Colonial American Descendants' Chart
  
  

Summary of Participants

All of the people in Group 2 are obviously closely related. Of the 16 participants who fall within Group 2, we have:

• 7 descendants of the William who died in Caswell County, North Carlina in 1803 (A6, A8, A13, A2, A11, A31, and A57);
  
  
• 2 native-born residents of Ireland, both of whose families originated in County Cork (A26 and A29);
  
  
• 2 whose Anglin ancestors emigrated from County Cork, Ireland to Canada in the 19th and early 20th centuries (A22 and A17);
  
  
• 4 whose Anglin ancestors emigrated from Ireland to the United States in the 19th and early 20th centuries (A36, A42, A54 andA58).
  
  
• 1 Anglim who lives in England and whose family is from County Tipperary, Ireland.
  
  

Summary of Findings

• The William who died in Caswell County, North Carolina, in 1803 was not the son of the Adrian who died in Buckingham County, Virginia, in 1777, as many had believed.
  
  
• None of the three heads of colonial American families (Adrian, William, and James) is related to any of the others.
  
  
• Group 2 has all but one of the matches in our project for any of the descendants of 19th- or 20-century immigrants to Canada or the United States.
  
  
• Group 2 provides the only matches in our project to any of our participants born in Ireland.
  
  
• Each participant who can trace his county of origin in the Old World traces it to County Cork, except one whose family is from County Limerick.
  
  
• The descendant of the Philip Anglin born about 1810 in Georgia is not, as some people had believed, the son of Cornelius and Millie Anglin and a great grandson of the William who died in Caswell County, North Carolina, in 1803, but is descended from Adrian instead.
  
  
• The descendant of Job S. Anglin is descended from the William who died in Caswell County, not Adrian, as some had believed.
  
  
• The Drury Anglin found in Lousiana and Texas in the 1830's is related to the William who died in Caswell County, North Carolina, and not Adrian, as some had believed.
  
  
• The most recent common ancestor of ALL of the people in Group 2, whoever he was, had the same haplotype as the colonial American William, indicating that this unknown common ancestor lived a comparatively short time before the colonial William.
  
  
• Test results on A17, A22, A36, and A58 call into question the supposed relationship of A17 and A22, as discussed below.
  
  
• Test results on A45 support the conclusion that "Anglin" and "Anglim" are variants of the same name.

Recruiting Goals

• A descendant of a different son of William, Jr., A11's ancestor
  
  
• A descendant of a different son of Aaron, A13's ancestor
  
  
• A descendant of a different son of Andrew, A2's ancestor
  
  
• A descendant of a different emigrant from Bandon than A17's Robert and A22's Samuel
  
  
• A descendant of a the Philip who settled in Jamaica in the 1700's
  
  

Test Results

		1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10	11	12	13	14	15	16	17	18	19	20	21	22	23	24	25	26	27	28	29	30	31	32	33	34	35	36	37
		DYS Numbers
ID	Ancestor	3 9 3	3 9 0	1 9 *	3 9 1	3 8 5 a	3 8 5 b	4 2 6	3 8 8	4 3 9	3 8 9 i	3 9 2	3 8 9 i i	4 5 8	4 5 9 a	4 5 9 b	4 5 5	4 5 4	4 4 7	4 3 7	4 4 8	4 4 9	4 6 4 a	4 6 4 b	4 6 4 c	4 6 4 d	4 6 0	G A T A H 4	Y C A II a	Y C A II b	4 5 6	6 0 7	5 7 6	5 7 0	C D Y a	C D Y b	4 4 2	4 3 8
Group 2        •       Predicted haplogroup R1b1c Citizens of Ireland; descendants of 19th and 20th century immigrants from Ireland to Canada and the United States; and descendants of William Anglin of Hanover Co., VA; b. abt 1732; d. 1803, Caswell Co., NC
A6	(Wm) John	13	23	15	11	11	11	12	12	12	13	13	29	17	9	9	11	11	25	15	20	28	16	16	17	17	11	11	19	23	16	15	18	17	37	37	12	12
A8	(Wm) John	13	23	15	11	11	11	12	12	12	13	13	29	17	9	9	11	11	25	15	20	28	16	16	17	17	11	11	19	23	16	15	18	17	37	37	12	12
A13	(Wm) Aaron	13	23	15	11	11	11	12	12	12	13	13	29	17	9	9	11	11	25	15	20	28	16	16	17	17	11	11	19	23	16	15	18	17	37	37	12	12
A2	(Wm) John	13	23	15	11	11	11	12	12	12	13	13	29	17	9	9	11	11	25	15	20	28	16	16	17	17	11	11	19	23	17	15	18	17	37	37	12	12
A57	(Wm)Drury	13	23	15	11	11	11	12	12	12	13	13	29	17	9	9	11	11	25	15	20	28	16	16	17	17	11	11	19	23	16	15	18	17	37	37	12	12
A11	(Wm) Wm	13	23	15	11	11	11	12	12	12	13	13	29	18	9	9	11	11	25	15	20	28	16	16	17	17	11	11	19	23	16	15	18	17	37	37	12	12
A31	(Wm) John	13	23	15	11	11	11	12	12	12	13	13	29
A29		13	23	15	11	11	11	12	12	12	13	13	29	17	9	9	11	11	25	15	20	28	16	16	17	17	11	11	19	23	16	15	18	17	37	37	12	12
A61	Anglim	13	23	15	11	11	11	12	12	12	13	13	29	17	9	9	11	11	25	15	20	28	16	16	17	17	11	11	19	23	16	15	18	17	37	37	12	12
A42	James	13	23	15	11	11	11	12	12	12	13	13	29
A22	Samuel	13	23	15	11	11	11	12	12	12	13	13	29	16	9	9	11	11	25	15	20	28	16	16	17	17	11	11	19	23	16	15	18	17	37	37	12	12
A58	Thomas	13	23	15	11	11	11	12	12	12	13	13	29	16	9	9	11	11	25	15	20	29	16	16	17	17	11	11	19	23	16	15	18	17	37	37	12	12
A45	Anglim	13	23	15	11	11	11	12	12	12	13	13	29	17	9	9	11	11	25	15	20	28	16	16	17	17	11	11	19	23	16	15	19	17	37	37	12	12
A17	Robert	13	23	15	10	11	11	12	12	12	13	13	29	17	9	9	11	11	25	15	20	28	16	16	17	17	11	11	19	23	16	15	19	17	37	37	12	12
A36	Jeremiah	13	23	15	10	11	11	12	12	12	13	13	29	17	9	9	11	11	25	15	20	28	16	16	17	17	11	11	19	23	16	15	18	17	37	37	12	12
A26	John	13	23	15	11	11	11	12	12	12	13	13	29	17	9	9	11	11	25	15	20	28	16	16	17	17	11	11	19	23	16	15	18	17	38	38	12	12
A54	James	13	23	15	11	11	11	12	12	12	13	13	29	17	9	9	11	11	25	15	20	28	16	16	17	17	11	11	19	23	16	15	18	17	36	36	12	12

Mutations from the ancestral haplotype are shown in bold type. Participants with no mutations indicated have the ancestral haplotype.

Irish Origins

Our participants whose place of origin in Ireland is known are from
Macroom, Clonakilty, Bandon, and Glanmire. Glanmire is on the northeastern edge of Cork City.

Aidan Anglin was kind enough to furnish me with very fine maps.
To see County Cork in the context of all of the other counties of Ireland, see this map.

The A17, A22, and A36 Dilemma

The recent results on A58 require the revision of this section, and I'm working on it, so stayed tuned.

A17 and A22 have believed that their respective earliest known ancestors were brothers, and for good reason. Robert was born in Bandon in County Cork in 1775, and Samuel was born there in 1780. Both families were Protestant, which certainly does not prove anything, but it does lend a comforting consistency to the idea. And there were not any records to suggest the contrary. Unfortunately, however, Irish records for the time in question are very scarce, so the absence of contrary records has little, if any, probative value.

It is ironic that when Group 2 has so few mutations, we should find three of them in the only two people outside of the colonial American group who believed their earliest known ancestors were brothers, and even more ironic that these two have none of their mutations in common, but there we have it. The fact that A17 and A22 have none of their mutations in common is not necessarily inconsistent, however, with the belief that Robert and Samuel were brothers.

Since A17 and A22 have no mutations in common, we know that their most recent common ancestor had the ancestral values and not any of these mutations. But we have no idea, just looking at these 2 sets of results, which generations below the most recent common ancestor these mutations occurred in.

Then along comes A36, whose test results show a mutation in common with A17, AND the mutation is at DYS 391, which is not a fast marker. The chance that two people in the group could have parallel mutations at that marker, rather than having inherited the mutation from a common ancestor, is not impossible, but is improbable, especially in so few generations.

If A17's and A22's earliest known ancestors were indeed brothers, and if all of A17's immigrant ancestor's children were born in Canada, and if A17 and A36 inherited their mutation at DYS 391 from a common ancestor, then A36 would have to be descended from A17's earliest known ancestor, Robert. Faced with these unlikely scenarios, it seems much likelier that A17 and A22 have more generations between themselves and their most recent common ancestor than they have believed. But lots of unlikely things happen, and what really counts is what actually happened, not what was most likely to have happened. It would be nice, therefore, to have more participants whose families came from Bandon to see if we can get any better an idea as to when the mutation at DYS 391 occurred, and thereby a better idea of the family tree.

If A17's Robert and A22's Samuel were indeed brothers, then A17 and A22 are 4th cousins once removed.

Group 2's Colonial American Branch

Because results from descendants of two different sons of William (John and Aaron) match exactly, we know that William had the same haplotype as A6 and A8 (descended from John) and A13 (descended from Aaron). Having established the ancestral haplotype, we have charted any mutations or differences from that haplotype in bold type in the Test Results Chart. Below is a chart showing the lines of each of our participants descended from William.

We know the haplotypes of each person indicated in dark blue. Testing of more participants would be required to establish the haplotypes of the persons indicated in lighter blue. Since only 12 markers have been tested for A31, we only know that his haplotype is ancestral for the first 12 markers, so his lineage in indicated in gray. If would be helpful if he would upgrade to 36 markers. The mutations are indicated in red.

If we were to establish where the mutations occurred, we would know that the relatives with that mutation, whose exact lineage was unknown, would be descended from the earliest ancestor with the mutation. A2's most remote ancestor whose haplotype is unknown is Andrew. We can find Andrew's haplotype by testing a descendant of a different son of Andrew, i.e. by testing a descendant of a brother of A2's grandfather John.

Likewise, in A11's line, William, Jr. is his most remote ancestor whose haplotype is unknown. We could find William's haplotype by testing a descendant of a different son of William Jr.'s than A11's great great grandfather John. If William didn't have the 18 at DYS 458, then we would want to move down one more generation and test a different son of John than A11's great grandfather Thaddeus.

Obviously, this tree is nice and leafy for the descendants of William's son John, but pitifully scraggly for the descendants of William's other sons. If our tree could branch out a little better for those lines, we might find some more mutations.

Decendants of William Anglin of Virginia & Caswell County, North Carolina

A8 and A6 are half 5th cousins.
A8 and A2 are half 4th cousins once removed.
A6 and A2 are 3rd cousins once removed.
A11 is a 5th cousin to A2 and a 5th cousin once removed to A6 and A8.
A13 is a 5th cousin to A2 and A11, and a 5th cousin once removed to A6 and A8.
A31 is a 3rd cousin once removed to A8, a half 4th cousin twice removed to A2,
a half 5th cousin once removed to A6, a 5th cousin twice removed to A11 and A13.

The charts below show only the direct lines of the participants in Group 2.