Edited LADD Genealogy Chat 23 Nov 99, Part 1


>Subj:    LADD Genealogy
>Date:   11/23/1999


>.Donald> Today we are having a informal chat with no topic!
>LUDDSHAR> Hello Donald.  If a David Ladd or Cheryl Ladd joins us, they are
my niece and
>nephew.
>LUDDSHAR> Did that Coat of Arms come yet.
>.Janet> Hi Donald and Sharon
>.Donald> Hi Janet!
>LUDDSHAR> Hi Janet
>.Donald> Yes Thank you,  I have't had use of the computer till about 4:30
so
>hadn't had time to send you a message saying so
>.Sharon> What does it look like to you?
>.Sharon> I mean regarding the Panter vs. Panther
>.Donald> the panter is still a mystery to me
>.Donald> actually the Crest
>.Sharon> We have found it stated both ways
>.Donald> my discription says:  Crest:  a leopard head  = panther
>.Donald> I was talking with someone that said they had a "generic" LADD
Coat
>of Arms
>.Sharon> Would like to see that one
>.Donald> and possibly in the English language
>.Donald> a Panther is an all black leopard
>.Donald> is also a puma
>.Donald> so it is a species of big cat
>.Donald> the CoA that Sharon sent  and another I have see  show the Crest
as
>a helmet
>.Donald> the motto:  Constant Et Ferme!
>.Donald> Constant and Firm   ???
>.Donald> The three seashells  represent the overseas journey during the
>Crusades   ????
>.Donald> to the Black sea area  hence  black seashells ????
>.Janet> Or three journeys?  Maybe they had three boats!
>.Donald> or 3 brothers
>.Donald> when was the Crusade period?
>.Donald> ah...end of the 11th to the end of 13th century
>.Donald> that would coincide with the 1066 invasion of England in which
they
>supposedly took a part
>.Janet> Sharon, I told Donald (if he read my email) that a Ladd "cousin"
>answered one of my queries.
>.Sharon> Janet, you and I are not connected, right?  So it wouldn't be one
of my cousins.
>.Janet> Right Sharon.  As far as I can tell.  The cousin>>Her ancestor is
>Isabelle Ladd, the daughter of Enoch C. Ladd who died in Arkansas.
>.Sharon> Did you get new information from her?
>.Janet> Now, if it turns out that my Constantine is the son of Joseph who
was
>the son of somebody from VA who went through Ohio and had kids there or
>something then maybe we are related.
>.Sharon> Well, if you do trace back to VA, then there is a good chance.
>.Janet> Yes, but mostly pertaining to her lines.  She's been to Yell
>County where my ancestors were.  I had information that Charles gave me and
>that I dug up that helped her.
>.Janet> Joseph Ladd is supposed to be from Virginia.
>.Janet> Somehow he got to Indiana by 1807 I think it was.
>.Sharon> I just found a Lenore Akerson who is researching the Gerrard,
>Ellyson and Armistead surname
>.Janet> Are all three of those names yours?  I know the Gerrard and Ellyson
>must be.
>.Sharon> Gerrard and Ellyson is mine.
>.Donald> ARMISTEAD married the daughter of an earlier Robert GERRARD
>.Sharon> That's right
>.Janet> How did you find Lenore?
>.Sharon> a Query
>.Donald> on which List?
>.Janet> I had an old correspondent find a query of mine, but didn't realize
>it was me.  She sent me an email telling me about me!  LOL  I still giggle
>over it.
>.Sharon> I believe the query was on either Ellyson or Gerrard, can't
remember
>** WALTWILEY just joined "Ladd Genealogy" (4 members now) **
>.Sharon> Hello
>.Janet> Hello Walt.  Are you researching the Ladd family?
>.Donald> Welcome  Walt
>WALTWILEY> Hi, Yes. I'm a partial Ladd. My  great-grandmother was Sarah
Ladd.
>.Sharon> who married whom
>.Janet> Walt, are you looking for Sarah's spouse?
>WALTWILEY> Sarah Ladd married William Nelson Wiley in 1863 in harrison
>county, Missouri
>.Janet> Do you know who Sarah's father was?
>WALTWILEY> Isaac Newton Ladd
>.Sharon> Sounds familiar to me
>.Janet> Yes, Sharon it does.  And do you know who Isaac's father was?
>WALTWILEY> I believe one of you gave me that info. Joseph.
>.Sharon> I think it was in some of that info. sent by Bennet
>.Donald> I have 2 Isaac Newton LADDs
>WALTWILEY> Isaac is from North Carolina
>.Donald> Joseph & Mary ANGEL ?
>.Donald> b. 21 Sep 1804
>WALTWILEY> I found one place where it was spelled ANGELL
>WALTWILEY> correct birthdate
>.Donald> married  Elizabeth HUTCHINS
>WALTWILEY> Does anyone have any documtation for any of these relationships?
>Yes to Elizabeth HUTCHINS.
>.Donald> I dead end there!
>.Janet> My PILE of information is a little disorganized.  I'm trying to
>remember--not a very trustworthy source--my memory!
>WALTWILEY> Janet, do you keep all this info in your memory?
>.Janet> Obviously NOT!  :-)
>.Sharon> There is a dead end there too in my info.
>.Janet> OK, Joseph married 1st Catherine Bacey Dameron.
>.Donald> In the Warren LADD book  Isaac Newton LADD has # 4666
>.Donald> I have no children listed for him & Elizabeth
>WALTWILEY> Isaac had only daughters.
>.Janet> Joseph was the son of Noble Ladd, Sr. and Judith Dameron.  You are
>related to my friend who lives nearby.  She is a descendant of Noble's
>daughter Anna.
>.Donald> Walt, which direction are you researching from Isaac, forward or
>back, or both?
>.Janet> I am getting this information from copies of pages from a book
called
>"Early Families of the North Carolina Counties of Rockingham and Stokes
with
>Revolutionary Service."
>WALTWILEY> Back. I got some info last week that goes back to 1620.
>.Janet> Now you have to share it with US!  (The 1620 stuff)  Who is your
dead
>end, so to speak.
>.Donald> what did you find in 1620?
>WALTWILEY> The 1620 stuff is John Ladd in Kent, England.
>.Janet> So, how can we help you Walt?  What are you looking for next?
>Donald, do "we" know John Ladd's father?
>Donald> some say yes  others say no!
>.Donald> I think there is a confusion of which Nicholas LADD that may be
John
>LADD of Virginia's father
>.Sharon> John's father (at least what I have) is Nichols Ladd b. abt. 1590
in
>Swingfield, Kent co., England, d. 1699 in England
>.Sharon> See, there is conflict about that
>.Sharon> Anyway he m. Ellen Pemble b. abt 1600
>.Donald> The Nicholas LADD that died in 1699 is the father of a John LADD,
>but of the John LADD of Burlington New Jersey
>WALTWILEY> If anyone has any copies of marriage certificates or knows of
>cemeteries where they ended up, I'd like to know.
>.Donald> the Nicholas LADD that died in 1669 is a better canidate
>.Janet> Nicholas has more than one problem--he was married at age 10 and
died
>at age 109!
>.Janet> Walt, marriage certificates, etc. on John or sooner, like Isaac
>Newton?
>WALTWILEY> Anyone from Isaac Newton back would be welcome.
>.Sharon> Donald, so is this Nicholas Ladd and Ellen Pemble the parents of
>John Ladd the immigrant?
>.Sharon> Who married Mary ___?___ and Bathsheba Lovett
>.Janet> This book says Joseph resided in Surry Co., NC during the Rev War
and
>served as a private in the NC Militia, for which he got a pension.
>Certificate #3565, B.L. Warrant 85009-160-55.
>.Janet> Joseph's father Noble has a will, written 22 Oct 1782 and probated
>Nov 1782 and is recorded in Surry Co., NC.  I'm not at all sure but it
might
>be on the Ladd Digging Grounds.
>.Sharon> Walt, have you explored the Ladd Digging Grounds.
>.Donald> Sharon, if John's parent is Nicholas then the one that died in
1669
>is my bet  and if he is the one that married Ellen PEMBLE then that would
>make them a good bet again--anything on the wife of Nicholas that died in
1699?
>.Sharon> oops again, yes Nicholas Ladd b. 1590 in Swingfield, Kent Co.,
>England d. 1699 in England m. Ellen Pemble b. 1600>.
>WALTWILEY> The daughters of Isaac N. Ladd and Elizabeth Hutchins were Mary,
>Malinda, Cicilla, Charlotte, Susanna, and Sarah plus one older daughter.
>WALTWILEY> I have looked at most of the items at the Ladd Digging Ground.
>.Donald> Walt  are you a member of the LADD-L@rootsweb.com  List?
>WALTWILEY> Yes.
>.Sharon> Parents of John Ladd who married Lovett & Mary?
>.Donald> Nicholas LADD that died in 1699 was more likely a brother or a
>cousin of John LADD of Virginia  not his father!
>.Sharon> Then who was his father.
>.Donald> Nicholas LADD that died in 1669 is a better canidate!
>.Sharon> Thank you
>.Donald> and this line goes back through Stephen to the John LADD and Alice
>OLDEFYLDE
>.Janet> That's really confusing, both Nicholas' and dying 1669 and 1699--
>easy to think there's a typo!
>WALTWILEY> 1590 to 1699. I don't believe it.
>.Sharon> I have that.  Just confused with that Nicholas Ladd & Ellen
Pemble.
>.Donald> the Nicholas that died in 1699 and buried at Hythe in the Quaker
>burial grounds is easy to check out
>.Sharon> That is a long time, isn't it?
>.Janet> Is it Nicholas 1590 to 1669 and the other Nicholas what to 1699?
>.Donald> all we need is an English connection to do some leg work for
>us...know anybody right off hand?
>.Sharon> 1590-1699 The Nicholas who m. Pemble
>.Janet> Really!
>.Donald> Sharon, I doubt that
>.Sharon> That's what I have.
>.Donald> not the marriage  only the dob-dod
>.Sharon> that would be 109 years
>.Donald> and you got this info from where?
>.Sharon> Well, I don't know
>.Donald> Nick 1  = 1590-1669  his son  Nick 2  ?? to 1699 as Janet said
>.Donald> Nick 2  father of John LADD of New Jersey; John of NJ  a nephew of
>John of VA
>.Donald> John of NJ came to America in 1678
>.Sharon> Source not included here.  More than likely the Ladd Digging
Grounds
>from Warren Ladd Book or Thomas Mifflin Book.
>.Sharon> Or just the Ladd Digging Grounds.  Couldn't have gotten it
anywhere
>else
>WALTWILEY> So is Nick 1 the father of John of VA?
>.Donald> I would rather think so if one has to choose!  Still no proof on
the
>parent of John of VA
>WALTWILEY> Okay. So, who's volunteering to go to England to track this
down?
>.Donald> His naming scheme for his sons, Amos and William, did not follow
>tradition
>.Donald> Larry has been there...
>.Sharon> Donald, are you talking about Nicholas Ladd b. abt 1545 in ,
>Wootton, Kent, England, d. 1629 m. Joan Parker b. abt 1565, m. Jan 28, 1589
>in Monkton, Kent, England as being the father of John Ladd the
>.Sharon> immigrant?
>.Donald> Larry thinks that the Virginia LADDs are from a different part of
England
>than those of County Kent!
>.Donald> Sharon  I believe that Nicholas [b. 1545] is another Nicholas, and
>the father of the Nicholas b. 1590
>.Donald> Yes  as opposed to the New England LADDs
>.Sharon> Then we don't have the father of John the immigrant?
>.Janet> Oh good grief!  This is as bad as all the Noble's and Amos'!
>.Donald> I have posted the English LADD lines several times on the List
but
>never get any response on them!
>.Janet> Well, I don't respond because I don't know any of it.  :-)
>WALTWILEY> Probably haven't posted these to LADD-L in the last 10 days.
>.Donald> no Walt I haven't
>.Sharon> So, we don't have the father of John Ladd the immigrant?
>.Donald> in last 6 mo, yes  and last year, yes!
>.Janet> Sharon, maybe only John the immigrant knows, huh?
** MAGNOLIA51 just joined "Ladd Genealogy" (5 members now) **
>.Janet> Hello Magnolia!  Are you researching the Ladd family?
>.Sharon> Hello Magnolia
>.Donald> Hey there, Maggy!
>WALTWILEY> Hi, Magnolia
>MAGNOLIA51> Hello all yes, I am researching Arkansas Ladds
>.Donald> there YOU go Janet  right up your ally!
>.Janet> Where where in Arkansas??  That's where mine are from!
>MAGNOLIA51> Close to yours Janet
>.Janet> OK, Magnolia, fess up, who are you and who are your Ladds!  :-)
>MAGNOLIA51> Marie, Enoch Ladd and his descendents. His daughter married
>Joseph Mobley
>MAGNOLIA51> Her name was Isabelle
>.Janet> Hi Marie!!!!  This is my newly found friend!  Marie, meet Donald,
>Walt, and Sharon!
>MAGNOLIA51> Hi Y'all
>.Sharon> Glad you're here.
>.Donald> Hello, any friend of Janet's is suspect!
>.Janet> Marie and I have had such a email frenzy, we can't get ready for
>Thanksgiving.
>MAGNOLIA51> You should see what's stacked up waiting.  I just had to see
what
>y'all talk about
>.Donald> We talk about those that aren't here!  LOL
>.Janet> There are rarely any Arkansas people here!
>MAGNOLIA51> Do  the rest of you have Arkansas Ladds or just Janet and I?
>.Sharon> I have 3 Enoch Ladd's, no wives.
>MAGNOLIA51> My Mother's relatives are from Arkansas.
>MAGNOLIA51> 3 Enoch Ladds? Where?
>.Donald> Same here, Sharon, #4625; #4639; &#4644
>.Sharon> Hold on , I'll check
>.Janet> They are trying to put your Enoch Ladd into the Warren Ladd book.
>MAGNOLIA51> What are the numbers?
>.Janet> Warren forgot the Arkansas Ladds I think!
>.Donald> #4625, parents:  Constantine LADD & Aneoler LADD
>.Janet> Enoch descends from William Ladd and Mary Ann Chapman--is that
right
>Marie?
>.Janet> My notes are covered up with the floor mopping stuff and bags of
>turkey stuffing!
>.Donald> #4639: William LADD #4592 & Mary Chapman
>MAGNOLIA51> Must be because they were buried up deep in those mountains. I
>have no idea Janet. I've been following your lead on that one. I hadn't
>gotten any further than Enoch and Angeline.
>.Donald> #4644 : Amos LADD & Lucinda LADD
>.Janet> William Ladd and Mary (Polly Chapman).
>.Janet> William was the son of hmmm.....
>.Donald> 4640 and 4607 for Amos  & Lucinda
>MAGNOLIA51> There's that Lucinda again. Got a date on her?
>.Sharon> Donald listed them all before I had a chance.  Boo Hoo
>.Janet> William's brother was Joseph...I'm working this out...
>MAGNOLIA51> Y'all have me at a disadvantage. I don't have that book.
>.Janet> I don't have it either Marie--just a page copied here or there.
>.Sharon> I don't have it either Marie
>.Janet> Donald and Sharon have scads of data though and are going through
it
>trying to place Enoch.  Walt, are you still with us?
>MAGNOLIA51> My Enoch was born ca. 1818 Angeline a little younger. Janet
gave
>me info that her surname was McCall
>WALTWILEY> Just listening.
>.Donald> Lucinda d/o Amos LADD# 4590 & Anna STONE
>.Janet> Enoch was born 1818 in South Carolina, married Angelina McCall and
>had most of their children in Tennessee.
>MAGNOLIA51> I'm wondering if Enoch did not remarry someone named Lucinda
>after 1860
>.Janet> OOps, typing not looking.
>.Sharon> Donald has more info than I do
>.Donald> Lucinda b. ca 1816
>MAGNOLIA51> No, this one would be younger than Enoch by a good bit. She was
>23 in 1870.They show younger children in household and she is from Ga.
while
>the others are from S.C., Tn., and Ar.
>.Janet> Enoch is 54 on the 1870 census of Yell County, Ark.  Angelina died
>late 1859 or early 1860 I can't remember.  There is a Lucinda in the family
>now we suspect as being his second wife.  She's 23.
>.Janet> I'm late again!
>MAGNOLIA51> Right.
>MAGNOLIA51> There's a George 10, then skips to Martha 4 on down to a three
>month old.
>WALTWILEY> My grandmother was born in Fayetteville, Arkansas. Sorry, no
>relation.
>.Janet> OK, I have a brain freeze going on.  Who is William's father?
Enoch
>in SC 1818.
>MAGNOLIA51> That information you sent Janet indicated Angeline died of bad
>heart. May have been childbirth exhaustion. George would have been born in
>1860
>.Janet> Hmm...that's a thought.
>.Janet> Donald, are you looking in your data?  William Humphrey Ladd and
Mary
>Ann Chapman.  Who is William's father?
>MAGNOLIA51> Waiting on y'all. Enoch was in Meigs County, Tn. in 1850. Don't
>know when his folks moved or if they did from S.C.
>.Sharon> I have Wm. Humphrey Ladd father as Constantine ladd b. 11 20 1818
>and Aneoler Ladd mother
>.Janet> Hmm..I don't know.  Here, wait...
>.Sharon> - signed off -
>MAGNOLIA51> Now, I'm confused. Janet are you thinking William is Enoch's
>father? Enoch was born in 1818
>.Donald> good question, Janet,  I have Amos LADD#4588 & Comicilla FRATEN
>.Donald> Charles said Amos 4588 never married and there was no C. FRATEN
>.Janet> Wait a minute while the cobwebs clear.  Remember Donald, we don't
>think there really was a Comicilla Fraten.1800 census of Pendleton
District,
>SC.  Amos Ladd.
>.Janet> This family appears to have had Henrice Co. VA antecedents.
>.Janet> Reading...typing...
>.Janet> Henrico Co. VA
>.Janet> When William Lynch sold 21 Jan 1799 to William Sutherland of
>Rockingham Co., NC, a farm on OOlenoy Creek of Saluda...
>.Janet> witnesses were Amos, Joseph, and John Ladd.  William Ladd of this
>family married Polly Chapman and removed to Habersham County, Georgia,
>becoming involved prior to 5 Mar 1827 in a controversy...
>.Janet> ...with his father-in-law, Joseph Chapman, concerning a horse and
>other property loaned to Ladd.  (Pickens Co., Chapman estate, Box 6, No.
75)
>MAGNOLIA51> Where are you finding this?
>.Janet> In my pile of stuff under the pumpkin pie! :-)
>.Janet> "1800 Census of Pendleton District, SouthCarolina," compiled and
with
>an introduction by William C. Stewart, National Genealogical Society, 1963.
>.Janet> I think this is the right one.
>.Donald> Walt, if your hanging in there, good.  If you have any questions
you
>can reach me at LaddofOhio@aol.com
>WALTWILEY> Thanks, Donald.
>.Janet> Donald, don't you have William Ladd who married Mary Ann (Polly)
>Chapman?
>WALTWILEY> Are you Ladd of Ohio of Oregon?
>.Janet> I've already told Marie what a mess my files are.
>.Janet> That's a good question Walt!  LOL
>MAGNOLIA51> Mine probably would be too if I had enough Ladd info. I was
just
>scouting out where Pendelton Dist. was.
>.Janet> I need to get a big piece of paper and map out the families and
where
>they went.  It's too hard for me to keep it straight.
>.Donald> Yes Walt, I R!
>.Janet> My notes, from someone else, say that the Enoch C. Ladd on the 1850
>census is the son of William Ladd and Mary Ann Chapman.
>MAGNOLIA51> 1850 Meigs Co, Tn. census?
>.Janet> yes
>MAGNOLIA51> ok, just checking. Considering the number of Miles Ladds we've
>uncovered, it wouldn't be hard to confuse Williams
>.Janet> POSSIBLY William is the son of Amos Ladd and Anna Stone.  But I'm
not
>sure at this point.
>MAGNOLIA51> Were Amos and Anna Stone from S.C. or Va.?
>.Donald> Remember William is William Humphrey LADD  that way he won't be
>confused with other Williams!
>.Janet> But I'm not POSITIVE he's William Humphrey.
>.Donald> his # is 4592
>.Janet> Does Warren have children for him Donald?
>.Donald> WH has a son Enoch, but yes, is he the Enoch you are researching?
>MAGNOLIA51> Thanks, I'll write that down. Can you give me the complete name
>of that book?
>.Janet> Don't know, have any dates?
>.Donald> his son, Enoch # 4639
>.Janet> Marie, email me and remind me I think someone posted info on the
book
>to the list recently.  Caution:  Warren is not always correct.
>.Janet> Donald, dates on Enoch??
>.Donald> not concrete, working around Mary CHAPMAN's years, 1786-1886 is
what
>I came up with circa dates for marriage and birth of children
>.Janet> It's a possibility.  I'll have to go through Charles' notes and
some
>old snail mail to see if I can figure it out.
>MAGNOLIA51> How long do you get to chat?
>.Janet> Charles thought my Constantine b. 1812 was the son of William's
>brother Joseph.
>.Janet> We chat until we can't anymore!  It depends on if anyone is
>interested in continuing.
>MAGNOLIA51> Didn't know if you had a time limit or not.
>.Janet> After two hours, we start to get tired and my head begins to hurt
>from thinking.  :-)
>WALTWILEY> Good Night, all. It was fun conversing with you.
>.Janet> Please join us again Walt!
>MAGNOLIA51> Night Walt
>.Donald> Nite, Walt  drop by again!
>WALTWILEY> - signed off -
>MAGNOLIA51> Where are Walt's Ladds from?
>.Donald> He mentioned Missouri
>MAGNOLIA51> Matter of fact, I could do with a little introduction of places
>from all ya'll
>.Janet> Did you want to know where we're from?
>MAGNOLIA51> No, where your Ladds are from and their names.
>.Janet> Sharon and Donald are related, right Donald?
>.Janet> (He might be looking it up and won't see that we asked him
another!)  :-)
>MAGNOLIA51> But go ahead with your question on William's children first
>.Janet> Donald is retired and lives in Oregon.  He and Sharon descend from
>Ohio Ladds.
>MAGNOLIA51> And Walt..is he from Missouri?
>.Donald> Enoch # 4639; Amos, 4640, mar. Lucinda LADD #4607; Rutha #4641, m.
>Bayles LADD #4600; & Aneoler/Eneoler LADD, #4642, m Constantine LADD # 4606
>.Janet> He lives in Seattle.  This was his first time at the chat.
>MAGNOLIA51> Bet that Eneolar watered down to Enola
>.Donald> and/or Annlie on that 1850 Alabama census!
>MAGNOLIA51> Enoch had children names Amos and Ruthy
>.Donald> named for his brother & sister?
>MAGNOLIA51> Got me? How many Ladds do you show on that Alabama census and
>what part of Alabam?
>.Donald> Jackson County
>.Janet> From LDS Ancestral File...Amos and Anna Stone Ladd had, Noble,
Elkin,
>G. G. Terrill Ladd, Bayless E. who married Rutha Ladd, Amos, Mary, Betsey,
>Solomon, Constantine who married Aneoler Ladd, Annie
>.Janet> and Lucinda.  Who am I looking for again???
>.Janet> There's no Enoch here.
>.Donald> Constantine? his wife and 9 children and then a Mary LADD in the
>same household
>.Janet> There's no William either.  I'm getting confused.
>MAGNOLIA51> Y'all started in Pendelton Dist, S.C with a William
>MAGNOLIA51> Possibly the father of Enoch
>.Donald> Jim sent me the census page, I printed it out then put it on the
>copy machine at 200% and I still can not be sure of Constantine and his
>wife's age
>.Donald> There is an Enoch age 11 in this Alabama household in 1850
>MAGNOLIA51> Too young. Mine was born in 1818
>.Donald> but is this Constantine a brother to your Enoch?
>MAGNOLIA51> I don't know. I am only vaguely familiar with Enoch on down.
>.Janet> Yes, that's what we've been concentrating on for the last few days
>Donald.  We hadn't started going backward yet.
>.Janet> I wish Charles were around, he knows the southern Ladds better than
I
>certainly do.
>.Donald> he is either 38 - 58 or 98  it is difficult to read
>MAGNOLIA51> My  Enoch apparently moved to Ar. about 1860. All his children
up
>to George born 1860 were born in Tn. I don't know any of his background yet
>.Janet> Marie, when did Enoch die?
>MAGNOLIA51> The 1850 Tn. census shows him born in S.C>, also the 1870 Ar.
one.
>.Janet> Oh, here it is 1874.
>.Janet> On the 1880 census, several of his children say he was born in
>Alabama.
>MAGNOLIA51> His and Angeline marriage date, 1839
>.Janet> Donald, the way you can remember this Enoch is that his first wife
>was born in Ireland.
>MAGNOLIA51> 1880 Enoch's children say on census Enoch was born in Al.?
>.Janet> Yes, but children are often wrong.  Three of the boys put their
>parents birthplaces as Ala and Ireland.
>MAGNOLIA51> Did Charles give you Angelline's parents names?
>.Janet> Marie, I don't think so, he must have found a marriage record at
one
>time and that's where he got McCall.
>.Donald> How many wives did this Enoch have?
>.Janet> Probably two.
>MAGNOLIA51> We think two right now.
>MAGNOLIA51> That's how we started discussing Lucinda from Ga.
>MAGNOLIA51> In 1870 the census shows Enoch 54 and Lucinda born in Ga. 23
>MAGNOLIA51> Next is his son Orville born in Tn. He's 22
>.Janet> Marie, what you have as Orville, might be Mary Anville.
>.Donald> Orville living in same household?
>.Janet> I had written down Anville, age 22, female
>MAGNOLIA51> Right, Orville in same household. Children born in Ga. down to
>George 10 born in Ar. Then skips to childen Martha 4, Franklin 2, and Ruthy
3
>months.
>MAGNOLIA51> I am not arguing. Mother copied it off as Orville but failed to
>put gender or association
>.Janet> But there's neither a Orville or an Anvilee on the 1850.  Oh, I'm
not
>arguing either, just trying to figure it out.  What Donald is getting at is
>that Orville if male, might have been married to Lucinda.
>.Donald> I am?
>.Janet> Yes!  And it was a perfectly good thought!  LOL
>.Donald> LOL  if it were a good thought  I won't argue!
>.Janet> On my census notes, I don't have an occupation for Anville either,
>the males had occupations.
>.Donald> but so did females if they were of the age of majority  as this
one
>would be!
>MAGNOLIA51> On 1850 children are William, Isabelle, Emaline, and John.
John
>should be Orville by rights. He was shown as born in 1849 in 1850- I don't
>have the 1860 census or 1880
>.Donald> John could have been given a middle name which he would use to
>differentiate him from another John?
>.Donald> Several of the men in our family adopted a middle name or initial
>to do just that
>MAGNOLIA51> Could be. Don't know who the other John was...but I'm certain
>there was more than one around.
>.Janet> Hmm...Charles' 1860 shows William, 17, Isabella, 14, Emiline, 12,
>John, 10, Joseph, 8, Amos 7, Doctor, 6, Jerome? ?, Melton 3, George W. 3.
>MAGNOLIA51> 1870 children after Orville are Joseph 20, Amos, 19, Enoch 16,
>and George 10. Then on down to the small ones I think belong to Lucinda
>MAGNOLIA51> Bet George was 3 months
>.Janet> Dates are off a bit.  Doctor=Enoch?  In the County Line Cemetery
>there's a Mary Anvilee Ladd who was the wife of one of the Miles Ladds.
Her
>dates 3/6/1847 to 2/16/1899.  Husband died the same day.
>MAGNOLIA51> That looks like two more children in 1860 than in 1870 or one
>with another name. Wish I had associations on this. Nephews you think?
>.Janet> Children could have died too.
>.Janet> Donald, Marie knows someone who knows someone else who will go look
up
>records for us -- such as Enoch's will -- but they aren't fast enough for
us.
>MAGNOLIA51> Their ages are just not very common spacing. There's something
>off. But, someone could have given wrong age too
>.Janet> I think they had to report how old they would be on June 1 of the
>census year.  Is that right Donald?
>MAGNOLIA51> Got a note from her today. Apparently her sister was not as
>willing as she thought. She said she'd have to do it herself and it would
be
>one day next week
>** LUDDSHAR just joined "Ladd Genealogy" (4 members now) **
>LUDDSHAR> Had to reboot and couldn't get back in.
>.Janet> We missed you Sharon!
>.Donald> depending when each of the census was taken, the 1860 may be
before
>their 1860 birthdates and the 1870 could be after their 1870 birthdates
>.Janet> I just read that somewhere about the June 1 thing.  Wish I had a
>brain that retained things!!!
>.Donald> that would account for from 10 to 12 years difference
>.Janet> Sharon, we're hashing over the children of Enoch C. Ladd and
Angeline McCall
>of SC to Tenn to Arkansas.  Enoch b. 1818 SC
>MAGNOLIA51> 10-12? You got me there.
>LUDDSHAR> OK
>.Donald> Now that is the first time a middle initial was introduced as
>belonging to Enoch
>MAGNOLIA51> Angeline born about 1822
>.Janet> Sorry, forgot it before.
>MAGNOLIA51> I don't think I have a "C" on anything either
>.Janet> If they reported their birthday in 1860 as 10 not yet 11, but in
1870
>had had a birthday, that would make the years off a bit.
>.Janet> 1860 Charles has E. C. Ladd
>.Donald> Marie, the census as for age at last birthday...if a birthday fell
>only a week or even a few days after the census...you see what I am driving
>at?
>.Janet> I didn't look at the 1860 myself
>MAGNOLIA51> Yes, I see what you are saying. I just couldn't figure 10 years
>out of it.
>.Janet> Of course, the other thing is, they didn't really know sometimes.
>.Donald> an age could be off by 11 months 29 day to as little as 1 day
>MAGNOLIA51> I show a John Ladd buried in County Line Cemetery but he was
born
>in 1839
>.Donald> I read on a census that the age was given as age on last birthdate
>prior to the cencus date!
>.Janet> Maybe this is what I saw...From the mortality schedules I
posted....
>MAGNOLIA51> Where did you post them Janet?
>.Janet> Note that each census year was the year ended June 1, so only
deaths
>recorded on these schedules were those occurring in the twelve month
periods
>ended June 1 of 1850, etc.
>.Donald> that was an ending period on that mortality schedule
>.Janet> I guess so.  Marie, I posted them on the Ladd mailing list.
>MAGNOLIA51> Where would I find that? Was it on the Ladd Digging and I
missed
>it?
>.Janet> It was somewhat discouraging as we may never figure out who the
>children belong to who are born and die between census years.
>.Donald> Marie on the LADD-L@rootsweb.com
>.Janet> Marie, are you signed up for the Mailing List from the Ladd Digging
>Grounds?
>MAGNOLIA51> No, will try to attend to that
>.Donald> I just have people use the LADD-L@rootsweb.com  with SUBSCRIBE in
the subject line
>.Janet> I didn't know to do it that way.
>.Donald> on an E-mail--the easy way
>MAGNOLIA51> Is there more than one list?
>.Donald> OH  yes  thousands  but you anly want to get on a couple!
>MAGNOLIA51> Or just the Ladd-L list?
>MAGNOLIA51> I'm on the King-L and Starr-L lists now
>.Donald> you can get on State List, County Lists etc
>.Janet> And then there's the daily posts or you can get the digest.  OK,
>Marie do you have access to the 1870 census of Yell County?  And, or, the
>1860 of Perry County?
>MAGNOLIA51> and a couple of them also
>MAGNOLIA51> No, what I have is strictly the notes my Mother made
>.Janet> Do you have a LDS Family History Library close by?
>MAGNOLIA51> A couple of hours away
>.Donald> Bummer!
>MAGNOLIA51> I think it's pretty much Atlanta or Athens for me. I might be
>wrong. Atlanta is out except in dire emergency
>.Donald> I have 5 within 20 min to an hour away!
>.Janet> I was just there and they are closed this week.  I'll bet they
don't
>have the 1860, but the 1870 might be there and I could check the Orville
>again.  It sure makes a difference if Lucinda and Orville were married.
But we never see Orville again, do we?????
>MAGNOLIA51> I'll check again. There may be one closer
>MAGNOLIA51> I haven't.  I was just checking over the burial records I have.
>Remember my cousin said that there were lots of Ladds buried around
Bluffton, Ark.
>Neither of us has records on those.
>LUDDSHAR> What about LDS www.familysearch.org might find something there
>.Janet> I haven't looked for this particular information--good idea.
>MAGNOLIA51> My cousin says there is an old CCC Camp there. It's south of
>Danville, Ar.
>MAGNOLIA51> Janet, about these census. What township does 1860 Perry show?
>And which county is 1880? Have a township on that?  1870 shows Rover
>township, Yell Co.
>.Janet> Charles only has 1860 Perry Co., #372.
>.Janet> 1880 is Yell County, Upper LaFave, #187, 188 and 189 -- Amus, Joe
and
>John.  HEY THERE'S JOHN!
>MAGNOLIA51> John have an age?
>.Janet> John LADD age 32 and family, living with brother Joe (Joseph) age
29.
> Next to Amus, age 26.
>.Janet> 1880-32=1848 right?
>.Donald> close enough!
>MAGNOLIA51> That looks like him all right
>.Donald> could be 1847 also  remember what I said about birthday?
>MAGNOLIA51> Wonder where Upper LaFave was? I have heard of Rover Twnsp, but
>not Upper LaFave
>.Janet> John married to Caroline, children are John's children, Joe is
reporting them as his
>nieces and nephew.
>.Donald> are other counties in Arkansas reporting any LADDs?
>.Janet> Yes, some.
>LUDDSHAR> What are their names?
>.Janet> John 32, Caroline 32, Martha? Mollie? 6, Dora, 2, James 6/12.
>.Janet> I've only looked mostly at Yell County because I knew MINE were
there.
>.Janet> # 189 has Enoch C. (the son) 27, and his sisters Ruthey 20 and Jane
>18.
>MAGNOLIA51> This is still 1880?
>.Janet> Yes.
>MAGNOLIA51> Jane's new. Don't have her on 1870
>.Janet> Jiminy Cricket, there's no Jane in 1870.  But there's a Jerome???
on
>the 1860 with ?? for ages on Charles records--maybe that was Jane.
>MAGNOLIA51> Nope, Ruthy is the youngest on 1870. This Jane should be
younger
>than her
>.Janet> There's no one even 8 years old on the 1870.
>.Donald> or vice versa
>MAGNOLIA51> No,  10-4-2-and 3 months
>.Donald> but age of Jerome not given  that name not necessarily in age
order!
>.Janet> No, Jane would have been 8 in 1870 and Ruthey 10 in 1870.  This is
>messed up!  Ruthy is 3 months on the 1870.
>.Donald> Things are beginning to blur!
>.Janet> Oh, I think I'm done for tonight too.
>MAGNOLIA51> Enoch C. the son is the right age
>.Janet> I know and he says Ruthey and Jane are his sisters.
>MAGNOLIA51> 1870 has Martha and Ruthy. Martha is 4, Ruthy is 3 months
>.Janet> HOWEVER, he also says he was born in Alabama and that BOTH of his
>parents were born in Alabama.
>LUDDSHAR> I'm calling it a night.  Catch you all on the 14th of Dec.
>.Janet> Marie, let's wait for Enoch's will.  It will at least identify
seven
>of the children.
>MAGNOLIA51> Well, his mother died in 1860. Apparently his Dad lived until
>Enoch was 20. But, if his stepmother was from Ga. that could account for
>confusion
>.Janet> I think we're right behind you Sharon.  Night!
>LUDDSHAR> Night
>LUDDSHAR> - signed off -
>.Donald> Good night Sharon
>MAGNOLIA51> Good idea, Good Night  Happy Thanksgiving!
>.Donald> Good night Marie, you too Janet!
>.Janet> Good night Donald!  I guess I'm editing this chat?
>.Donald> 4 sure!
>MAGNOLIA51> - signed off -
>.Janet> We're outa here....
>.Janet> - signed off -
>.Donald> yep!
>



   

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