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CIA - AGEE

Subject: Agee
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 09:32:19 -0400
From: "James Hope" <jhope@hartcom.net>

I have started reading Agee's books. Guess what guys he says there were three CIA in our class, 3 in our first class and 3 in our 2nd class. All direct from basic.

Jim
Subject: Re: Agee
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 10:24:18 -0400
From: "Edward Garcia" <edmarta@earthlink.net>

Raynsford? Who else didn't have stripes on arrival? Too bad everyone didn't send in their bios....could have figured it out from those with lack of service prior to OCS...
Subject: Re: Agee
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 12:56:16 -0600
From: George Crongeyer <bgcron@earthlink.net>

Ollie, Re CIA members in 58A/B. Last year I checked our class pictures for those without service ribbons on their uniforms. Kinda interesting.

George
Subject: Re: Agee
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 12:20:45 -0500
From: "Jim & Lane Colvig" <jhc4@ktc.com>

Ollie,

Re the CIA Cadets......I'd peg 3rd Sqdn's O&T Smith, in our First Class as one of them......no idea who amongst our bunch... R. Raynsford would be a good prospect.
Subject: Re: Agee
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 16:06:34 -0400
From: "Prentis L. Ollis" <ollis32@earthlink.net>
To: George Crongeyer <bgcron@earthlink.net>

George you may be on to something.... I just returned a few minutes ago from a very short visit (15 minutes) with Jim Hope... We were reading Agee's Book for his OCS period... I am going to see if I can get the book and post the OCS period on our Web.....

I count 6 without ribbons, plus and additional three in our 7th Squadron.... Is that the numbers you got????? I think 4 (male) of the 6 could be suspect!!!!! 

Do you think Agee would reveal the names should we ask?????

I think I will put this as a subject on our "Point of View" pages:

Ollie
Subject: Re: Agee
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 14:28:11 -0600
From: George Crongeyer <bgcron@earthlink.net>
 
In "Inside the Company" Phil refers to his two CIA mates going into 58B as "...Tony who's from Princeton; Bob from Williams...".

Do University's put their grad's lists on the internet? 

George
Subject: Re: Agee
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 17:36:15 -0400
From: "Edward Garcia" <edmarta@earthlink.net>
 
Should we pursue this any further? Attempting to unmask a classmate might be hazardous to him/her....... If he would not name them why chance it?
Subject: My prior military service
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 19:14:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dorie Dowell <doried32@yahoo.com>
 
Even though I arrived in OCS without stripes, I was in the Naval Reserve from 1951-1955, and on active duty from 1953-1955. In the picture in the Shavetail, it appears that my National Defense ribbon is on the wrong side. As you know, after I discovered the "webside," one of the first things I asked you to do was
to reverse the picture to correct a 42-year-old embarrassment. How long do you think I would have lasted in such a rigid military environment with my ribbon incorrectly placed? For uniformity, I'm sure that the Shavetail editors wanted everyone looking to the left, and I was the only one who wasn't, which was probably the reason for the reversal. For those who doubt me, gaze at the website under 7th squadron where the picture shows the ribbon to be in the right place -- on the left side.

I came to OCS from civilian life, however. The requirements for women at the time were to have two years of college and be 21 years of age. I met those requirements in 1953, but chose to request active duty in the Navy. As you know, it wasn't until the summer of 1957 that I decided to request a commission in the Air Force. Miss Trammel came from civilian life. I don't know about Miss Noah; I had the impression she was an airman when she came to OCS.

Early in second class when the ladies were tired, bewildered, and fed up, some of us took NODOZE so we could stay awake in class. Mr. Agee found out about it and threatened to turn us in. To whom? The CIA? Perhaps a foreshadowing of things to come.

I believe that "Tony" from Princeton refers to Anthony Carey from first squadron, who is now deceased.

Thank you for the opportunity to set my record straight. Please include these comments in your "speaking out" section.

Dorie Dowell
Subject: Re: Agee
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 08:40:57 -0400
From: "bob" <iambob@borg.com>

I think it was Brymer. His MO was to pull as much Ramp time as he could, with as many different people as he could. His hope was that the stress of standing in the Texas sun would cause them to break down and tell how the wives were sneaking in the candy and cigarettes. Remember how his back pockets overlapped after two months of losing weight and being tailored by Lautersteins? It was in the overlap that he wore his wire. it was disguised to look like a stitch in the pocket.

The Bastard, and I thought he was a friend. Thanks to Comrade Phil, we now know the truth.

Bob
Subject: Re: Agee
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 09:01:04 -0400
From: "Edward Garcia" <edmarta@earthlink.net>

Never would of thought of EL GORDITO as the CIA type.... much too shy, withdrawn and lacking in independent thought...a mere glance at his writings shows that he has no viewpoints and is hesitant to "Let it all hang out" so to speak....no Bob, I think you have this one all wrong....besides, he's much too short.
Ed
Subject: Re: Agee
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 09:11:29 EDT
From: Callicotte@aol.com
To: iambob@borg.com,  
 
Good detective work! You are on the right track.

EZ 
Subject: Re: Agee
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 09:15:24 EDT
From: Callicotte@aol.com
 
Take it from me....Gordo wasn't one. The CIA types knew who each other were and tried to take care of each other. For example....the guy who was the Wing Adjutant in 58A was one of them. What did he do??? He picked Phil to take his place.

EZ
Subject: Re: Agee
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 19:04:24 -0500
From: "F&G Brymer" <fabgord@earthlink.net>
 
After all these years I must confess--I thought EZ may have been NKVD...
Subject: Re: Agee
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 20:35:13 -0400
From: "Edward Garcia" <edmarta@earthlink.net>

Mafia maybe.......Southeast USA family....had a talk with Joe Bananas down in Miami once...gave EZ an honorable mention...told you about meeting Joe didn't I?... met him in Vegas...I was on Town Patrol and in those days we took charge of G.I.s when they got in trouble...met Joe on my orientation tour of all the casinos....later Joe came to Miami...He was managing a big hotel there...and I ran into him when I read about the Tropicana ....I think that was the name.. renovating....figured I would see if they could donate some old stuff for my squadron dayrooms...I was a 2nd Lt...Walked in and they took me to the manager and it was Joe!!! Old home week !! Joe completely fitted out both our dayrooms with color TVs, theater seats, exit signs, curtains and carpet...won 8th AF best improvements award for the 823rd Combat Defense Squadron...Anyhow Joe asked if I had met a guy name of EZ in OCS....said he was a good troop but a bit of a loose canon....as he was always trying to assume title to property under very shaky conditions.....this from Joe mind you!!! Anyhow told him I knew EZ only by rep.....told him he tried to take possession of the HeadShed at Lackland......Joe said some guys never change...boy if he only knew, Eh??
Subject: Re: Agee
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 21:20:39 -0500
From: "F&G Brymer"  <fabgord@earthlink.net> 
To: "Edward Garcia" <edmarta@earthlink.net>,  
1
You do realize Edwardo that your "Dayroom Asset Liberation & Upgrade Program" which would have earned you a Hard Walkon Water "9" coupled with the endearment of all your Sq Air Cops for your initiative---In today's Air Force would probably earn today's Air Cop Lt an article 15/Summary Court!
How has the Force values strayed so far.....
Subject: Re: Agee
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 23:42:51 -0400
From: "Edward Garcia" <edmarta@earthlink.net>

Agreed....But then we took the awards ....different times, different AF.....Just a few years earlier LeMay held the Natl. Sports Car races at Hunter....purpose?...Money for new dormitories to get us out of WW2
Barracks...Gen Rosie Grubbs had the East Coast Circus and Carnival the next year to fund other needs .....not so lucky....got retired....not for the Circus/Carnivals....but for obligating the Air Force to finish paying for the projects.....ah well......that's' life!!!
Subject: CIA/58B
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 15:42:38 -0400
From: "Frank C. Chavers" <frank1@brevard.com>

Ollie, I concur with Doris Tony was /is Anthony Carey of 1st Sq. I had the pleasure of rooming with him. He was a penalty imposed on the room who had the fastest fall out time. I saw Tony once after OCS in the terminal at Dulles . 
Subject: Agee
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:10:32 -0400
From: "James Hope" <jhope@hartcom.net>
 
Finished reading two of Phil's books, Inside the Company and On The Run. He's a slow read. ...... not to have a clue that American foreign policy, and those who execute it, serve first and foremost the interests of the small minority of people who run the country for corporate America."

I have some problems with the small minority who run the country, I think there are a lot of special interest groups. I sure agree that our foreign policy towards south America sucks. We've supported governments that kept their elite in power. I don't know how I feel about the CIA operating outside the law and classifying everything so that we, the American people don't really know what they are doing. I watched Air America in Vietnam fly out of the same bases we did and knew they flew into Laos, Cambodia and up North. We couldn't do it because we weren't at war with those countries and if we had got shot down we would have been spies other than POWs.

The scary thing is that when you give someone a way to do something and he can keep it secret or deny it, he's probably going to use it. That's why I hated the idea of certifying on pre-emptive nuclear strikes.
Then there's Tom Clancy with all his Jack Ryan books. Ryan and Mr. Clark were CIA but they were good guys and it was necessary for them to break the law to save the world for democracy.
I agree with Phil that what we were doing in South America was wrong. His way of exposure may well be the only way to get control. Congress had a hell of a time stopping Reagan supporting the Contras.
I'd be interested in some comments and feedback. Could someone please add Agee and Gordo and EZ to this. Jim
Subject: Re: Agee
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 18:18:48 -0400
From: "Edward Garcia" <edmarta@earthlink.net>
 
I'm reading both now.....checked out from the library...It is indeed difficult to read either book as Phil as really gone into a lot more about the CIA than I care to read....besides my objective was to see what his motivation was and now I know....and think him wrong for including names and placing those people in danger...he could have got the same results by writing as he did but not using the names of field agents etc,....only what the CIA was doing.....it was probably the "names" usage that placed him on the run... that's an awful lot of people to piss off so they come looking for you....not too smart Phil! 
ENG
Subject: Re: Agee
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 12:09:42 -0400
From: "bob" <iambob@borg.com>
  
References: 1

Jim:

One has to be very careful to avoid mixing social services with the politics of a country. There have always been wars and spies and dirty rotten bastards that influence the leaders of a country and people that have their own self interests at heart. We had more rotten bastards, and were better at it than the others so we are the World Power. Phil says a small minority of people run the US for corporate America. He has chosen to support a minority of one that has managed to ruin the economy of Cuba. Which minority group would you rather support? Is Castro really better than Batista? Who is to say?

We need spies because the other guys have spies.

We need secrets for the spy stuff to be effective.

When we supported the dictators in South America we got bananas and coffee and beef from Argentina on our terms. Now that we see ourselves as social reformers, we get cocaine and heroin on the terms of the drug cartel. Rather than kick ass in Somalia we set up soup kitchens for the warriors and got our asses whipped. You know the story in Kosovo and the results of our "targeted" bombing by committee.

Read the "Art Of War" by Sun Tzu, and "The Prince" by Machiavelli. Phil did. As did Castro and Ho Chi Minh. 

Let's hope George W did.

All the best,

Tiger Bob
Subject: Luck of the Draw????
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 10:12:20 -0400
From: "Edward Garcia" <edmarta@earthlink.net>
 
 
Our Classmate seems to have selected the right place at the right time for the right business......mere chance, the luck of the draw or friends in high places? Stay tuned for the next episode, "The making of a Millionaire".

Restrictions Eased House Votes to Lift Travel, Food Bans Vs. Cuba

The Associated Press

W A S H I N G T O N, July 21  The House voted Thursday to allow unrestricted U.S. food and drug sales to Cuba and let Americans freely travel there. The vote was a major victory for farm, business and other
groups trying to ease the four-decade-old sanctions against Fidel Castro government. With supporters arguing that increased contacts would help weaken Castro hold over the communist nation, the House voted 232-186 to stop enforcing rules that limit the ability of Americans to travel to Cuba. It then voted 301-116 to also halt enforcement of rules banning U.S. exports there of food, and of rules limiting sales there of American medicine.

Minutes earlier, lawmakers voted 241-174 to reject a broader proposal by Rep. Charles Rangel, D-N.Y., that would have ended enforcement of United States prohibitions against virtually all trading with the Caribbean island nation.
Subject: Re: Agee
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 11:37:04 -0400
From: "James Hope" <jhope@hartcom.net>
 
1 , 2

I guess I'm just a Pollyanna. Wish we could just do the right thing and not have to be sneaky about it. If you did the right thing tho, you wouldn't mess in other countries business. But we do want to influence outcomes and like you say, they are doing it and we can't just give them an open field. Be happy when we get a foreign policy that is more than just anti-communist. When you talk about helping another country come up from poverty you have to talk about them industrializing and I'm not for shipping American jobs overseas.

Jimmy told about the Argentines having the capability of building their own trainer aircraft but we insist they keep on using ours and won't allow aid money to be used to build up their airplane industry. I can remember a guy from the Netherlands in SOS who resented having to buy helmets, belts, uniforms from the US when they could build them and give their people jobs. Also remember the F104 that we didn't want but insisted NATO take it. Kept jobs for Lockheed.

I can understand where Agee was coming from when he studied South American history and determined that our foreign policy was not helping the "people" but only keeping the oligarchies in power.
He sure gave away the store tho. Would have taken the Russians years and lots of money to find out on their own what he gave them.

Appreciate the feed back. Jim
Subject: Re: Agee
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 12:19:07 EDT
From: Callicotte@aol.com
 
When I was at HQ NATO I would sit in the back of the room during meetings of the International Council and also of The Military Committee and listen to discussions and decisions being made about which buying contract would go to which country. When the decisions were made and the countries that lost the 
contracts and the counties that won the contracts were announced.. many of the conferees would rush downstairs to the NATO Bank and do an "arbitrage" (spelling). That means they would take funds out of their account and put it into the currency of the country that won the contract. When the decision was 
announced to the world press....the value of their currency would go up and then they would rush back down to the bank and cash in!!! No, I didn't do it because I don't like to wait in long lines!!

EZ
Subject: Re: Agee
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 16:43:43 -0400
From: "Edward Garcia" <edmarta@earthlink.net>
 
Reading Inside the Company, I am wondering now what P.A. really gave away? If he named Station Chiefs and station employees he gave nothing away as these folks were not a secret....(seems they all socialized together and had great parties, etc...) In short they all knew each other...so no wonder no charges were ever pressed....he gave nothing!! So the question may be what's it all about Phillip?.... are you still working? Have you now gotten to where you were supposed to get?.......And what or who is your objective? And if you have one, is your employer working on its own ? , cause I sure don't see Billy Bob having the guts to back your play. Just a little ruminating guys....what's your take?
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Agee]
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 19:16:20 -0400
From: "Philip Agee" <pagee@bevconsult.com>
 
References: 1

I was very glad to receive Jim's message to whom I reply: Yes, Jim, the books are dense because there was a lot to pack into them. Inside the Company is particularly heavy reading, but despite that it was enormously successful (30 languages, best seller in Britain, U.S., etc.) and will soon be republished.

In both books I speak to my motivation and the reasons I broke the rules, something like the classic Jesuit "principle of double effect," i.e., worse to keep to the rules than to break them.

I hope that some day some of you will visit Cuba with us. We are now 14 people in this office and are becoming the focal point for Americans visiting Cuba. Tomorrow, for example, Jerry Brown arrives heading a delegation of 14 people for the signing of a sister city agreement between Oakland, CA and Santiago de Cuba. Jerry, you know, was governor of California for 8 years and a serious candidate for the Democratic Party nomination in 1992. Now he is mayor of Oakland and will likely be a presidential candidate again. We've made all the arrangements including meetings at the highest level. Groups like this are coming all the time as well as students, youth baseball teams and ordinary tourists. Many if not
most of these people are also breaking the rules because they refuse to submit to the absurd laws on visiting Cuba enacted under pressure from Cuban extremists in Miami.

Thanks, Jim, for your understanding and many greetings to you and to all our classmates.

Phil
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Agee]
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 20:07:09 -0400
From: "bob" <iambob@borg.com>
 
References: 1 , 2

Good God. Phil...he is best known as Governor Moonbeam!

I wish you well with your business, in fact as I told you earlier, my son and I may sail with my son from Key West to see you and your setup next March.

I think you made a wrong choice when you left the Company, but I respect your reason for doing so.

Lighten up on the political stuff, you have made your point when you left the Company, and I would think that none of 58B is really interested in your views of the US and how it is run.

We kinda like it here.

See you in March,

Bob Fields
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Agee]
Date:  Sat, 22 Jul 2000 00:17:56 -0400
From: "Philip Agee" <pagee@bevconsult.com>
 
References: 1 , 2 , 3

Bob, we normally don't answer correspondence from fools and idiots, but in your case I'm answering because the class members in this discussion got your message. Thank you for your wishes for the success of my business. We will do very well, in fact, without yours, and I suggest you find someone
else with whom to plan your diving in Cuba. FYI: Others in this class are not offended by my allusions to how the US is run. In fact they are astute and savvy in this regard, a quality that seems to have escaped you. You needn't worry about future intrusions into your confined world from here. I will scratch you from the addressee list after this message and leave you with the revelation that I too think that the US is a great place that I "kinda like" like you, especially the people. Re "lighten up," it's too bad you don't see the importance of the political content of US relations with Cuba, but one cannot expect too much. It's only your loss. Regretfully,

Philip Agee
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Agee]
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 14:44:17 -0400
From: "bob" <iambob@borg.com>
 
References: 
1 , 2 , 3 , 4

Phil:

Well, there goes my day! A CIA Whistle Blower, Man On The Run, and supporter of Castro and "The Revolution" has just taken me off his mailing list. Some days it just don't pay to get up. Damn.

I can't speak for the Class, but be careful about confusing curiosity about your lifestyle with support for your views.

I do wish you well,

Bob
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Agee]
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 16:09:09 -0500
From: "F&G Brymer" <fabgord@earthlink.net>
 
References: 
1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5

CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Agee]
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 21:59:29 -0500
From: "F&G Brymer" <fabgord@earthlink.net>
 
References: 
1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5

I HOPE YOU REALIZE YOU HAVE SCREWED UP YOUR CHANCES OF EVER GETTING A
SHIPMENT OF "Montecristo A".......                                                                            
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Agee]
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 06:18:15 -0500
From: "F&G Brymer"  <fabgord@earthlink.net> 
To: "Edward Garcia"  <edmarta@earthlink.net> 
References: 
1

Edwardo-- had "Company" classmates/friends at both AFSC & AWC who were contemporaries of Phil B.F. A in the same area of ops who gave me insights. The infrastructure terminations were a by product of the writings no matter if not by design. Luvs Yak...
Subject: Re: Agee
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 09:47:51 -0400
From: CHARLES P CLAWSON <cpclaw@juno.com>
 
HI:

This is Mr. Bubbles [Chuck Clawson, class 58B]. Just read your e-mail and I agree with your comments about S.A.! I remember Phil as a team player and very committed to what he believed in - obviously, he acted as he believed! While I do not agree with his politics - & I so e-mailed him - yet I admire the fact that he had the courage of his convictions to act upon them! Even tho' they are contrary to mine!

So, to make a long story short - men will be right in principles, right in facts, right in beliefs, and totally wrong in their applications of truth! Guess that is what it means in the BIBLE when it says, "All have sinned and come short of the Glory of GOD!"

Not preaching, just understanding that the best of intentions will often lead us astray - especially if we undertake actions without consulting the ONE who began it all - & even then, "we see darkly, as through shadowed glass"!

Yet, what can we do? Respond the best we can, according to our convictions! In Korea & in Vietnam, 'better men' died than some of the ones we fought for - just had different convictions/politics! Never understood it very well, just did my job - yet, now, as I have become a Christian, I see better than I did - and that is why I can admire a sincere man - even tho' he is sincerely wrong!

Take care - Your friend, Mr. Bubbles!
Subject: Makes you think
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 09:55:29 -0400
From: "James Hope" <jhope@hartcom.net>
 
It do make you think.

I've mentioned that I've come to the conclusion we were on the wrong side in Vietnam_ but, I still don't forgive Jane Fonda for giving aid and comfort to the enemy while our boys were POWs. Phil was surprised at the support for the hostages in Iran. I think he said that very few if any were there with clean hands. Americans are like that. If a man is doing what his country told or asked him to do, we support him.
I know the dangers of "My country, right or wrong" "Love it or leave it", but we sure have a tendency to want to believe our country is right.

Thanks to you Bob, I've come to see that the morality of war depends on who wins. If you win ,you're a hero. Lose and you are a traitor and a war criminal i.e. Revolutionary war. Washington, Jefferson and the rest would have been traitors. We don't have a history of rewarding people who decide this or that war is wrong and refuse to go. Seems like a female Capt.. doctor didn't want to go in Desert Storm. Don't know what came out of that. Maybe I'm wrong about history because I seem to remember Donna Shalala saying "our best and brightest refused to fight in Vietnam" and the president agreed with her. Personally do not see Cuba as a threat. If we can give favored nation to China, we certainly can do the same for Cuba. If our country and our system is so great, why do we fear a two bit dictator
Subject: Re: Makes you think
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 10:22:27 -0600
From: George Crongeyer <bgcron@earthlink.net>
 
1

Jim, Thanks for the clarity. We can't, and more important, we should not police the world, even though President Roosevelt thought we could. Countries should be left to find their own destinies. We should not put down the poor and disenfranchised. We of all people should understand revolution. We should not get in the way of those who are trying to improve their lives. 

Phil, Bob does not speak for me re his remarks about the lack of interest of his classmates... You should be proud of your work. George 
Subject: 2001 Reunion
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 14:21:14 -0500
From: "John A. Chamberland" <jac2670@apci.net>
 
There will be a table at the door to check your weapons, knives, grudges, etc. and at the same time to pick up a cool one to last through our discussions.

BJ
Subject: Agee...
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 09:22:55 -0400
From: "Edward Garcia" <edmarta@earthlink.net>
To: "Prentis L. Ollis" <ollis32@earthlink.net>

Ollie, Carl Stinson asks that I send this URL to you for the classmates if they are interested...
..http://www.cnn.com/2000/US/06/25/cuba. tourism/ Clicking on the "Links" once at the site one can read the interview given by Agee.....As for me I have had enough of Mr. P.A.
Ed
Subject: Re: Makes you think
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 08:53:48 -0500
From: "James L. Haynes" <jhaynes1@flash.net>
 
References: 
1 , 2

I guess, in following this discussion, that I am one of those dutiful persons who doesn't question the orders of the Executive unless it strongly goes against my personal moral code involving my personal actions. I just train myself to do the best I can, then go and try to do it. People like me live in our own little world without looking at a larger perspective. Probably nothing wrong in that, except that I kind of wish that I were a little more brilliant such as maybe Jim Hope or Phil Agee so that I can look at the overall situation with a better viewpoint and had the strength to admit that there is "something wrong with this picture". Maybe I am awakening in my old age. I do know that after my 4th tour in SE Asia, I was depressingly disgusted with the whole scene, both with the reason why we were there and the inept leadership shown and continually demonstrated by our political and military leadership. Probably why I volunteered for a subsequent tour tracking POWs and MIAs in Laos. I don't think that I had, nor have the guts to stand up and say, "This is wrong", except in private conversations. A weak point in my character possibly counterbalanced with my strong sense of blind patriotism. I am starting to get more involved locally - school board, county and city politics. Maybe there is some hope for me yet. Jim Haynes
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Agee]
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 11:36:03 -0500
From: "F&G Brymer" <fabgord@earthlink.net>
 
References: 1

PERSONALLY WHAT I SAW IN THE INITIAL AGEE TRAFFIC WAS SOME CLASSMATES WHO WERE TAKEN WITH P.BF.A'S CELEBRITY STATUS BUT WHO HAD NEVER READ HIS WORKS AND REALIZED THE DAMAGE HE DID. MY CONTACTS GIVE A DOZEN REASONS WHY AGEE FLIPPED. ONE OF THE MOST PERSUASIVE ONE IS BECAUSE OF THE WAY THE "COMPANY" TREATED AGEE'S BRIDE. AS YOU POINT OUT AGEE IS NO DULL TOOL AND HE WELL KNEW HE WAS NOT JOINING A JESUIT MISSIONARY GROUP WHEN HE SIGNED ON WITH THE DIRTY TRICKS GANG. NEEDLESS TO SAY SO LONG AS ROUGE STATES ARE IN BUSINESS WE NEED THE JUNK YARD DOG GUYS AROUND TO DEAL WITH THE BAD GUYS ON THEIR TERMS.

I THINK BOB FIELDS MADE HIS VIEWS CRYSTAL CLEAR RE AGEE ALBEIT WITH MORE COUTH THAN MOI!. AS FOR HOPE & CRONGEYER I CAN'T HELP BUT WONDER WHAT THEY HAVE BEEN SMOKING. GIVEN THEIR VIEWS ON THE STATE OF THE UNION THEY SHOULD CONSIDER IMMIGRATION! FRANKLY EDWARDO I DO NOT GIVE A LITTLE RATS ASS IF YOU PUT MY VIEWS ON LINE TO ONE AND ALL. AMERICA HAS BEEN GOOD TO THIS IMMIGRANT AND FOR ALL HER WARTS SHE IS STILL THE LAND OF THE FREE & THE BRAVE TO THIS GUY. MAYBE GEORGE & JIM SHOULD REFLECT ON WHY OUR EMBASSIES WORLD WIDE ARE INUNDATED WITH APPLICATIONS FOR IMMIGRATION TO OUR GREAT COUNTRY. BOTTOM LINE--FUCK THE AGEES OF THIS WORLD AND "LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT" STILL MAKES SENSE TO ME. LUV YA...
Subject: The CNN reported Interview with Agee
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 15:31:29 EDT
From: Callicotte@aol.com
 
You need to read this!

Carl Stinson put me on to an article on www.CNN.com that you need to thoroughly read. Read the interview in particular. It is an eye-opener to some...but not to me. The CIA found out Phil was/is a communist mole and was going to get him, but he was tipped off and fled. I didn't glean this from 
the articles. I had an occasion to talk to the deputy CIA station head at a party in Frankfurt when I was dating his secretary (between wives). She mentioned that I went to OCS with Phil. The CIA man didn't know Phil but he knew he had been exposed as a communist. The rest speaks for itself.

Go to www.CNN.com. On the main page, click on "US" on the left vertical scrollbar. Scroll down 
to the July 23 article which is entitled something like: Web Site Publishes Secret CIA Briefings. From there scroll down to related stories and you will see 3 or 4 articles about Phil.

In truth....Phil was a communist infiltrator who was about to be caught so he fled and exposed as much as he could in the hopes that the notoriety would save him.
Subject:Re: The CNN reported Interview with Agee
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 16:55:20 -0400
From: "James Hope" <jhope@hartcom.net>
 
References: 1

EZ I just read this and don't find where you determine that in truth AGEE was a communist infiltrator about to be exposed. I personally don't believe that and would like to see your proof. I thought the articles were damned good but like all his stuff heavy reading . I'm making Phil an info addressee in case he has something more to say.
Subject: Re: The CNN reported Interview with Agee
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 16:51:43 -0500
From: "James L. Haynes" <jhaynes1@flash.net>
 
References: 1

Sorry, Ed, but I reviewed your indicated web site and all its related articles and found no reference to anyone proclaiming Philip Agee as being a communist mole. It would be a far reach to assume this from the short statement made that he was accused by a defecting Cuban Intelligence officer in 1992 (who by the way if my memory serves was later discredited by the US) of accepting $1M from the Havana Government.

I tend to disbelieve this accusation, based upon the US record of treatment of moles in our intelligence service. Once suspicioned, the FBI makes a thorough investigation, and if found to be with merit, the individual is arrested and charges are brought in federal court. Moles in USA typically give/sell info to foreign governments through their intelligence service, and when caught, are generally charged with treason. And there is no statue of limitations.

Agee was not so charged. And I can well believe that the rest of the CIA officials would truly believe that Agee was a Communist when he resigned and published his book. He essentially turned on them, which to them was an unforgivable act. Besides, having worked with some of the Company men in SE Asia, I recognize the mindset - if you are not with them, you are against them and (in those days) you were a communist sympathizer (or worse). How many times during those days was someone charged as being a Communist when their acts appeared not to be in the best interest of the government. Of course we all recall that the student leaders of the anti-war movement during the '60s and early '70s were called 'Communist', as well were Jane Fonda and the ex-Attorney General (what WAS his name). Although I
despised and detested Jane Fonda (still do) for her actions, she obviously was not a communist even though her actions best served N. Vietnam.

As far as I am concerned, the jury is still out insofar as Agee was/being a communist. There are no supportive facts. I deplore his action in his expose; I am still of the mindset of "My Country, Good or Bad"; however, I was not there and not subject to the reason for his actions.

In the recent years of 'whistle-blowing' of deplorable government agency actions - syphilis testing of blacks in prisons, testing of war gases against wild animals and ranchers' sheep, payoff/rakeoffs/bribery in HUD activities, WhiteHouse/FBI abuses, (the list is quite large), no one is attempting to call the authors of these actions "Communist", nor were the authors of the Watergate Papers. So why is Agee automatically labeled as a communist or communist mole?

Philip was a classmate of mine, as were you and all others of 58B. Unless there is proof of these charges, he will remain so regardless of how I feel he should have handled his disappointment of the Company, and I welcome all my classmates to my home and family. Jim Haynes
Subject: Re: The CNN reported Interview with Agee
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 19:36:18 -0400
From: "bob" <iambob@borg.com>
 
References:1 , 2

Dear Classmates:

With this brief note, I close out my contribution to this go round of Honor, Duty, Country.

Let me get this straight:

We have a guy that swore to uphold the Law, and broke it.

We have a guy that took an oath to uphold the Constitution, and broke that oath.

We have a guy that admits to betraying his co-workers, and in some cases putting them in harms way.

We have a guy that by his own admission betrayed his Country.

We have a guy that by his own admission supports "The Revolution" and all which that implies.

We have classmates, retired Air Force Officers, that are treating this guy like as if he were a fucking Rock Star.

What's wrong with that picture?

Take me off your mailing lists.

I am off to Maine to breath some fresh air.

Bob Fields
Thundering Third
Subject: Re: The CNN reported Interview with Agee
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 22:07:07 EDT
From: BuzSaw123@aol.com
 
Fellow classmates, I don't know exactly how to express myself on the Agee Affair. MY tendencies are with Bob Fields. I don't know of anyone worst than a traitor, especially a military person. First I can't comprehend how anyone could betray their country, regardless of circumstances. I still get watery eyes when I hear the Star Spangle Banner or see a Military Parade. Duty and honor still is an important part of my life. I know now I have to read Agee's book but to me all indications are he is guilty of some wrong doing.
Subject: Re: The CNN reported Interview with Agee
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 09:01:35 EDT
From: Callicotte@aol.com
 
As I replied in my earlier email to you and in my initial email...It was the Station Chief in Frankfurt who told me. Whether his words were The Company Line" or were based on inside information is anybody's guess. Don't worry...you will never have Phil as a guest in your home!
EZ
Subject: Mending Fences
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 08:01:46 -0500
From: "James L. Haynes" <jhaynes1@flash.net>
 
I don't wish to be instrumental in causing or widening a split between my classmates. We went through a lot together, matured together, and developed a bond which I wish to last until we are all gone. I hereby close out myself from from any sensitive discussion which may tarnish our caring for each other, and wish to reengage our previous relationships which I so enjoy. I apologize if I contributed to any dissention amongst us.

Back to my collection of potential dribble. Jim Haynes
Subject: Re: The CNN reported Interview with Agee
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 09:05:49 EDT
From: Callicotte@aol.com
 
I "Second" Bob's statement! I've got more important things to do than waste my time discussing why a traitor is a traitor.

Put me back on your mailing list when this subject is closed.

EZ
Subject: Re: Mending Fences
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 09:51:38 EDT
From: Callicotte@aol.com
 
Jimbo:

You could holler at me all day and not diminish my respect and caring for you one iota! We are all like old married people who have been together for over 40 years....and we have! You will notice that both Bob and I said put us back on the list after this subject is over....not it's over with us! Isn't that what old married folks do? That's what my wife and I do...we just agree to disagree.

Love and Kisses,

EZ
Subject: Re: Mending Fences
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 09:52:40 -0400
From: "James Hope" <jhope@hartcom.net>
 
References: 
1

I whole heartedly second this. Jim Hope
Subject: Re: The CNN reported Interview with Agee
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 13:47:08 -0400
From: "Edward Garcia" <edmarta@earthlink.net>
 
Me Too! 
Subject: Re: Mending Fences
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 13:56:27 -0400
From: "Edward Garcia" <edmarta@earthlink.net>
 
Okay guys n' gals start dribblin'.
Subject:  Re: Mending Fences
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 16:14:39 -0500
From: "F&G Brymer" <fabgord@earthlink.net>
 
References: 1

I THINK IT WAS FORCARINI WHO STARTED IT ALL!!!!
Subject: Re: Mending Fences
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 18:29:21 -0400
From: "Edward Garcia" <edmarta@earthlink.net>
 
Yaeh Gorditto...Forcarini my hat! I know a formenter when I read one...glad I ain't a part of all this stuff!!
Subject: Re: Mending Fences
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 09:56:50 EDT
From: Callicotte@aol.com
 
You are BAD, El Gordo!
Subject: ocs58b
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 19:21:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: james hinson  <jazzy_29102_1999@yahoo.com> 
To:  PAgee@www.cubalinda.com 
CC: ollis32@earthlink.net 

Phil I have read with interest our classmates opinions. if you recall I shared a room with you for three months. you told me then you were CIA and there were a couple more in 58B. you also shared your views with me about capitalism and I have always wondered how anyone who could not keep a secret and was against capitalism could be selected for the CIA. but our government seems to do things backward anyway. I personally think you were wrong in what you did because I believe you knew as far back as college that you would change the capitalist world if you could. maybe you have helped as many people as you have harmed if indeed you did cause harm. I thought you were a super nice guy and you sure were full of spirit. if you remember the OCS club was too close to our room, and I was lucky to make it. 

jim hinson/asst/adj/58B