++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ REVISED RFD - start ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > Subject: 2nd RFD: Genealogy groups > Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,soc.roots, > fr.rec.genealogie,alt.genealogy > Followup-To: news.groups > > Cc: JewishGen@israel.nysernet.org > geneal@retsys.gun.de > ROOTS-L@vm1.nodak.edu > LINES-L@vm1.nodak.edu > PAF-L@genesplicer.org 2nd RFD (Request for Discussion) Reorganization of Usenet Genealogy Newsgroups UPDATE: This revision of the genealogy newsgroups proposal is based on discussion of a formal RFD posted August 15, 1994. Major changes to the proposal include: New groups to be requested under the soc. top level hierarchy as determined by voters in a straw poll taken by the UVV. Added soc.genealogy.methods moderated group. Added UPDATE section. Added instructions for mailing a post to news.groups. Wording changes in or additions to RATIONALE. Listed moderators names in s.g.surnames and s.g.methods. Deleted prohibition of crossposting in surnames newsgroup charter. Rewrote .misc charter. Added .methods charter. Revised the "working list" to add people, change email addresses. Added alt.genealogy and mailing lists geneal@retsys.gun.de, ROOTS-L@vm1.nodak.edu, LINES-L@vm1.nodak.edu, and PAF-L@genesplicer.org to list of groups to get the RFD. The RFD has been revised to reflect those changes, and has been expanded in some areas to address issues which were raised during the discussion. This is not a Call For Votes (CFV). A CFV will be posted to all the groups which have received this RFD no sooner than one week after this RFD is posted. The voting period will run at least 21 days during which discussions can continue. The CFV will include a ballot and directions for mailing votes to the votetaker. To allow readers of soc.roots and other newsgroups or mailing lists to carry on discussions of genealogy without having to deal with messages about the proposed re-organization, if you respond to the RFD, or to related messages, please see that your article headers include: Newsgroups: news.groups Followup-To: news.groups If you wish to post to news.groups but don't have access, you may mail your post to news-groups@cs.utexas.edu. SUMMARY: RENAME soc.roots to soc.genealogy.misc CREATE soc.genealogy.methods (moderated) CREATE soc.genealogy.surnames (moderated) CREATE soc.genealogy.computing CREATE soc.genealogy.jewish (moderated) CREATE soc.genealogy.german CREATE soc.genealogy.french After a transition period, REMOVE soc.roots PROPOSAL: that several soc.genealogy.* (soc.g.*) groups be created, - having a more easily recognizable name for the genealogy topic - producing more manageable and better organized traffic - bringing some existing interest groups into the genealogy hierarchy - concentrating surname queries into one archived group - increasing participation on a more world-wide basis - promoting synergy among current readers of genealogy groups - providing a basis for future interest groups - providing gateways to mailing lists on other networks - providing archiving for most of the new newsgroups. NEW GROUPS: The proposal is to establish the following new or renamed groups: Moderated? Archived? Mailing list at soc.genealogy.surnames Yes Yes gitvm1.gatech.edu soc.genealogy.methods Yes Yes gitvm1.gatech.edu soc.genealogy.misc No Yes gitvm1.gatech.edu soc.genealogy.computing No No gitvm1.gatech.edu soc.genealogy.french No Yes gitvm1.gatech.edu soc.genealogy.german No Yes rz.uni-karlsruhe.de soc.genealogy.jewish Yes Yes israel.nysernet.org The existing soc.roots group would be renamed to soc.genealogy.misc. RATIONALE: This proposal is an effort to get discussions and other postings by on-line genealogists together in well-named, readable newsgroups in a Usenet big seven hierarchy. The overall goal is to provide a better organizational structure on Usenet to allow the convenient exchange of genealogical information. The desire is to make full use of Internet capabilities in order to provide even more resources toward genealogical research. Genealogy is research on ancestors, relatives, and family history. Genealogy posts currently go into one group in the Usenet big seven and one group in the alt.* hierarchies - soc.roots and alt.genealogy. Several genealogy mailing lists are also in operation. Proposals to re-organize soc.roots have come up repeatedly over the past few years, however the RFD posted in August was the first official try at reorganization. This is a revision of that document. The proponents hope that the discussion on the RFD can improve the proposal and bring us quickly to a CFV and a vote. There is no desire by the proponents to cut off anyone's access to genealogical discussions or information - all on-topic posts which have been welcome in existing genealogy groups or lists would be welcome in one of the new soc.g.* groups. In addition to the RFD, the proponents will post in news.groups FAQ files which summarize many of the points and the thinking which arose during discussions among the committee and during the RFD, and also some background on the members of the working group. The renaming of soc.roots to soc.genealogy.* is proposed because the use of "roots" to mean genealogy is often misunderstood. The unmoderated soc.g.misc group will succeed soc.roots. The moderated soc.g.methods and soc.g.surnames, and the unmoderated soc.g.computing are new creations based on existing traffic in soc.roots. Soc.g.german is based on interest from researchers in the US and Germany and other parts of Europe and with a newly formed mailing list. The soc.g.jewish and soc.g.french groups are based on existing conference/mailing-list/newsgroup connections. Arbitron data for May '94 shows about 3600 messages per month for soc.roots and about 200 for alt.genealogy. Changes to both groups since May makes it difficult to make good projections, and current Arbitron data is unavailable for comparisons, but on-line genealogists generally agree that the total number of genealogy posts has been growing rapidly. One of the frequent uses of Usenet genealogy groups is for research queries for surnames or family names. Part of this proposal is to create a group for surname queries that will be both moderated and archived. Concentrating most queries into one group, should benefit people who are researching a particular family name by allowing for faster and more effective searches and more effective long-term sharing of data. The use of standard formats for subject lines of queries should make these queries more productive for researchers in the future. We also propose a few new ethnologic or "ethno-newsgroups" in which genealogical researchers who have a focus in a particular ethnicity could post. The groups we propose already have constituencies, either in existing groups or in mailing lists. The ethno-newsgroups are meant to be inclusive rather than exclusive. They do not correspond to any physical geographic limits, but are open to anyone who has ethnic connections to the named groups. These include emigrants and immigrants, those that share the same language, or those that share the same focus of interest. Posts to the ethno-newsgroups will not be restricted to any particular language. The charters of the 3 ethno-newsgroups we propose would limit posts to genealogy topics, and posts without genealogical content are strongly discouraged. Such topics might be better discussed in soc.culture. or elsewhere. Also, the ethno-newsgroups are not meant to be strict partitions between regions, peoples, countries, languages, or topic areas, but rather to reflect a focus of interest among on-line genealogists. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ PROPOSED CHARTERS: soc.genealogy.surnames Surname queries & tafels Moderated, archived, and gatewayed to a mailing list. Group for queries about relatives or ancestors. Moderation is intended to increase the research value of the group archive by insuring all posts include subject lines in a few specific standard formats. This will aid in scanning the newsgroup and searching the message archives. The moderators will solicit input on query formats, and will publish those formats, and help posters in following the format rules for this group. Many of the posts to soc.roots and alt.genealogy are attempts to contact net-users who are researching a related family name or line. A tafel is a well-defined format for a query about several surnames. Queries that include Surname, Place, and Date are the more useful, especially in searching for popular surnames. Since posting surname queries in magazines and newsletters has been a popular method of genealogical inquiry for decades, on-line queries will probably continue to be posted for the foreseeable future, even though some surname query services are available on-line. Volunteers for this group are: Bill Mills , list manager, moderator Tim Pierce , moderator and any co-moderators or successor moderators that all current moderators agree to. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ soc.genealogy.misc General genealogical discussions Unmoderated, archived, and gatewayed to a mailing list The soc.genealogy.misc group is for any genealogy-related posting which is not appropriate for one of the other soc.g.* groups. Possible topics include time-sensitive and/or wide audience announcements and requests; information about personal experiences and contacts; solicitation of other researchers' opinions. For example: * Questions about which soc.g.* group is appropriate for a given question; * Announcements (special events; new products and services, etc); * General advisories (scams, finds in used bookstores, etc); * Wide-audience requests: (does anybody have this book; advice about researchers in or travel to a particular location; etc.) * Requests for opinions on ways to handle particular family situations; * Sharing of personal experiences that do not illustrate methods of general applicability; * Discussions about unusual names; nicknames, etc. The creation of the soc.g.misc group implies the removal of soc.roots. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ soc.genealogy.methods Genealogical methods and resources Moderated, archived, and gatewayed to a mailing list The soc.genealogy.methods group is for the discussion of genealogical (but non-computing) resources and methods, and for the analysis of particular research problems. Examples of topics are: * Records and other resources, primary and secondary, public or private: anything related to locating, accessing, evaluating, interpreting, and/or preserving them; * Ways of organizing your research; * Evidence: proof; evaluation of conflicting sources; * Patterns and conditions of life in the past: laws, trades, migration routes, folkways, economic conditions, etc. which can help interpret the evidence we find as well as provide an ancestral context; * Interdisciplinary discussions: (demographics, genetics, medicine, stylistic analysis, law etc.). Postings from both experienced and inexperienced participants will be welcomed. The philosophy of moderation is to be light-handed and to offer extra help behind the scenes for new participants, who may be experiencing problems with e-mail addresses or net customs or the like. This assistance will be offered privately, in response to posts which, judging from past experience, are likely to be objected to by at least some other participants (e.g.personal attacks, questions fully covered in FAQ file, items which were intended to be personal e-mail; incomplete questions; etc). However, the moderators are concerned to avoid acting as censors, so posters may overrule their advice and post anyway, except for outright flames or frankly commercial ads. Volunteers for this group are: Karen Isaacson (karen@rand.org), list manager Brian Leverich (leverich@rand.org), moderator Alicia Towster (towster@usl.edu), moderator ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ soc.genealogy.computing Genealogical computing & net resources Unmoderated, not archived, and gatewayed to a mailing list. Discussion of computer-based genealogical tools/resources of any type. Software: popular programs, tafel generators, chart utilities. Hardware: computers, printers, scanners, and laptop/software combinations, On-line resources: related gophers, webs, ftp sites, lists. library catalogs. geographic or history servers. data archives (eg. tafel repositories) Other computer related resources: CD based data. Other electronic forums; BBS's, Fidonet, etc. Meta-discussions concerning the entire soc.g.* hierarchy. periodic posting of key FAQs and charters. how to access the archives of sister groups. problems with or suggestions for any sister group. Many questions would be answered in FAQs, but we can expect the perennial "what software?", "how do I export from XXX to YYY?" and "can I run XXX on my single-floppy 8086" questions to show up here. Discussions that are closer to state-of-the-art are encouraged, such as discussions about GEDCOM format, scanner and OCR software combinations; and printer, printer driver, and output generating software. Since computing includes on-line resources, and this certainly includes Usenet, discussion about the soc.genealogy.* groups themselves is considered appropriate. Announcements of recent availability of and discussion of shareware or commercial software and services are acceptable, but advertisements from vendors, including "for-sale" posts from individuals are not. In general, if the poster expects to gain a financial profit from a post, the post should go elsewhere - probably to misc.forsale or biz.* This restriction is intended to comply with the acceptable use policies of many non-commercial sites, and with the policies of the mailing list listserver site at gitvm1.gatech.edu. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ soc.genealogy.french Francophone genealogy Unmoderated, archived, and gatewayed to a mailing list. Soc.genealogy.french will be gated to fr.rec.genealogie, whose moderator, Denis Beauregard, supports this proposal and is the proponent for this group. One purpose of this group is to exchange information about ancestors who spoke French, had French names, or lived in places inhabited by French speakers or where records were kept in French. Posts in the French language are encouraged when practical. They are accepted in other languages otherwise. Those who prefer to communicate in French are invited to discuss any topic relating to genealogy in soc.g.french. Others should use the appropriate other newsgroup. The newsgroup name was chosen specifically not to indicate France (the country) but French (the language) because 80% of the traffic is from Quebec (which is not France of course). soc.g.french will be gatewayed to FrancoMedia (a Fidonet technology BBS network) equivalent conference (FM-Genealogie). Presently, 80% of the traffic in the group fr.rec.genealogie comes from FM-Genealogie. The following section in French is included for the convenience of French readers. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ soc.genealogy.french Genealogie francophone Non modere, archive et avec passerelle vers liste d'envoi (mailing list) soc.g.french aura une passerelle avec fr.rec.genealogie dont l'animateur, Denis Beauregard, appuie cette proposition et a suggere la creation de ce nouveau groupe. Un des buts de ce groupe est d'echanger des informations concernant des personnes, noms ou endroits francophones ou encore vivant dans des endroits habites par des francophones ou dont les registres sont tenus en francais. L'usage du francais est encourage, mais quand cela est impossible, les demandes d'information peuvent etre envoyees en d'autres langues. Ceux qui preferent communiquer en francais sont aussi invites a discuter de tout autre sujet relie a la genealogie dans soc.g.french. Les autres devraient utiliser le groupe approprie. Le nom du groupe a ete choisi de facon a ne pas preciser la France (le pays), mais le francais (la langue) puisque 80% du trafic provient du Quebec (qui n'est pas la France). soc.g.french aura une passerelle avec FM-Genealogie, la conference equivalente du reseau FrancoMedia (un reseau de babillards ou BBS de technologie Fidonet). Presentement, 80% du trafic du groupe fr.rec.genealogie provient de FM-Genealogie. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ soc.genealogy.german Family history including a German background Unmoderated, archived, and gatewayed to a mailing list. A discussion group to engage in fruitful interchange and information sharing as such relates to people who are or once thought of themselves as being of German ethnic stock; who lived or may have lived in Germany, one of the old German states or any other country in the world - and their descendants. In addition, questions of local customs and history, even regional or national history, which affected the life of these people and which are difficult to research in the present, are very proper material for discussion. Language shall not be restricted to English. Volunteer translators will help out as needed. It is hoped that a rotating committee will be formed which will handle translation requests by assignment so the group will not be deluged with many copies of the same translation. Subjects such as software and other 'generic' genealogy are best posted to the appropriate group unless the poster is not proficient in the English language and needs to write in German. The content of the postings shall be archived and made 'researchable' via FTP-mail or other such means. The group will be gated to a mail list (LISTSERV) for genealogists who do not have access to Usenet. The gate shall be a two-way path in that all messages posted on either side shall appear on both sides. The group is to be created new and the principal proponents are Rainer Herrmann (rainer@retsys.gun.de) and W. Fred Rump (fr@icdi10.compu.com) The following section in German is included for the convenience of German readers. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Grundsaetze der Usenet-Gruppe 'soc.genealogy.german' Es folgt eine freie Uebersetzung der dem Ziel der Gruppe zurecht kommen soll. Ziel dieser neuen Usenet-Gruppe ist die fruchtbare Kommunikation und wirksame Informationsweitergabe zwischen allen Personen, die sich fuer Familiengeschichte und Familienforschung im heutigen oder ehemaligen deutschsprachigen Raum interessieren. In dieser Hinsicht soll die Gruppe ein allgemeines Forum fuer Ahnenforscher aus aller Welt bieten. Dazu gehoeren natuerlich auch die vielen Nachkommen frueherer Auswanderer welche Ihre Vorfahren und deren Nachkommen im heutigen Deutschland suchen. Oft suchen Familienforscher in Deutschland auch die entfremdete Verwandtschaft im Ausland. Die Gruppe befasst sich aber ausser mit der eigentlichen Familienforschung auch mit den damit zusammenhaengenden Fragen zu oertlicher und zeitlicher Kultur und Geschichte. Zur Erreichung dieses Zieles sind folgende Zusatzeinrichtungen zur Gruppe vorgesehen: - Eine 'Mailing-Liste' mit LISTSERV-Software; sie wird unter einer Internet-Adresse erreichbar sein; sie bietet vom Internet aus per EMail Zugang zur Usenet-Gruppe, und umgekehrt. - Ein dazugehoeriges Archiv; es wird alle Beitraege der Usenet-Gruppe erfassen sowie interessante Dateien zum den Themen der Gruppe speichern; alle Beitraege und Dateien des Archivs koennen per EMail mit der LISTSERV-Sprache durchsucht bzw. angefordert und uebertragen werden. Diese Usenet-Gruppe arbeitet kooperativ und ohne Zensur durch einen Moderator. Daher ist fuer die Gruppe auch keine bestimmte Sprache vorgeschrieben: sie ist also vielsprachig. Beitraege in Deutsch oder Englisch werden vermutlich von mehr Teilnehmern verstanden als anderssprachige, und sie haben daher bessere Aussicht auf Antworten. Hilfsbereite sprachkundige Teilnehmer werden jedoch gebeten, interessante fremdsprachliche Beitraege in Ihre Muttersprache zu uebersetzen bzw. zusammenzufassen und erneut in die Gruppe einzubringen. Es ist erhofft das sich ein kleines Uebersetzungskommittee mit dieser Arbeit beschaeftigen kann. Damit wuerde auch ein Artikel nur einmal uebersetzt und nicht mehrere Male der Gruppe zugefuehrt werden. Auf diese Weise soll die Newsgruppe eine kooperative Familienforschung ueber geografische, nationale, ethnische und sprachliche Grenzen hinweg verwirklichen. Andere, als die fuer diese Gruppe definierten Themen, sollten besser in eine dafuer geeignete Gruppe eingebracht werden. Eine Ausnahme soll nur dann gemacht werden, wenn das, wegen fehlenden englischen Sprachkenntnissen, dort nicht moeglich ist und nur hier auf deutsch gefragt werden kann. Die Vorschlaege zur Verwirklichung dieser Usenet-Gruppe stammen hauptsaechlich von Rainer Herrmann (rainer@retsys.gun.de) und Wolfgang Fred Rump (fr@icdi10.compu.com). Sie uebernehmen gerne die Funktion von Ansprechpartnern bei grundsaetzlichen Fragen zum Verstaendnis der Gruppe. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ soc.genealogy.jewish Jewish genealogy group Moderated, archived, and gatewayed to a mailing list. The soc.g.jewish group will be the Usenet manifestation of JewishGen, an existing Jewish genealogy conference which is gated between an Internet mailing list and a Fidonet conference. The organizers of that conference support this proposal, and control the gateway between the mailing list and the Fido conference. The conference is archived on Fidonet. The proponent for this group is: susan.king@trace.cgsg.com Purpose of the Jewish Genealogical Conference (Fidonet and Internet Access) by Susan King and Bruce Kahn - JewishGen moderators 1. Providing all researchers of Jewish lines a means of networking with others on areas of particular interest to Jewish researchers to include: A) Geographical locations; B) Queries based on SURNAME and Locale, Tiny Tafels; C) Yizkor Books and Landmanshaften from the old country; D) Research sources and location of materials; E) Identifying relatives lost in the Holocaust; F) Finding relatives misplaced during the Holocaust; 2. Providing researchers of Jewish lines access to research materials both in the USA and abroad as they become available. 3. Providing an outlet for Holocaust survivors (the last generation) a means of identifying their families and preserving the historical information that has been lost or forgotten because of the horror and fear that these people have suffered. 4. Providing a means of encouraging Jewish researchers to use this medium to open up research opportunities that heretofore have not been available. 5. Providing a link between genealogy and the history of the of the Jewish people. 6. Providing a link between the Jewish Genealogical Societies throughout the world. The term "moderated" has different usages in the Usenet and Fido contexts. For a discussion of this point, please see the FAQ. End of PROPOSED CHARTERS ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Working Group List The soc.genealogy.* proposal comes from a working group of 16 people. We encourage you to participate in the discussion in news.groups. If you need to contact any of us personally, we are: E-MAIL ADDRESS NAME ROLE ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RFD/CFV COORDINATORS kaleb@x.org Kaleb Keithley RFD proponent galway@chtm.eece.unm.edu Denis McKeon RFD/FAQ editor PROPOSED MODERATORS (M) or MAILING LIST MANAGERS (L) beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca Denis Beauregard soc.g.french (L) rainer@retsys.gun.de Reinhold Herrmann soc.g.german (L) karen@rand.org Karen Isaacson soc.g.methods (L) susan.king@trace.cgsg.com Susan King soc.g.jewish (M,L) Brian_Leverich@rand.org Brian Leverich soc.g.methods (M) bill@leland.stanford.edu William Mills soc.g.surnames (M,L) twpierce@midway.uchicago.edu Tim Pierce soc.g.surnames (M) pimentel@roots.ultranet.com John Pimentel soc.g.computing (L) fr@icdi10.compu.com W. Fred Rump soc.g.german (L) towster@usl.edu Alicia Towster soc.g.methods (M) OTHER COMMITTEE MEMBERS dchapin@er.arco.com David Chapin organizer/coordinator df@unlinfo.unl.edu Dave Furstenau member olson@osiris.cso.uiuc.edu Margaret Olson member/editor elle@midway.uchicago.edu Ellen Seebacher member Our backgrounds and interests in genealogy are addressed in the FAQ. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ DISTRIBUTION of RFD and other required posts: The required messages - RFDs, CFVs, and vote results will be posted to these official or affected newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups, news.groups, soc.roots, fr.rec.genealogie, and to the affected mailing lists: JewishGen@israel.nysernet.org, geneal@retsys.gun.de and to interested newsgroups and mailing lists: alt.genealogy, ROOTS-L@vm1.nodak.edu, LINES-L@vm1.nodak.edu, PAF-L@genesplicer.org If you have questions about the RFD distribution, please see the FAQ for this RFD, and read the Usenet Newsgroup Creation Guidelines. Also note with respect to the Usenet guidelines: The RFD discussion period has lasted for more than the 21 day minimum called for in the Guidelines. The discussion of this 2nd RFD is expected to last for approximately seven days. The discussion will be followed by a CFV (Call for Votes) which will last for a minimum of 21 days during which discussion can continue. The vote will be run by a neutral third party, from the Usenet Volunteer Votetakers (UVV). This message is *not* a CFV - do not try to vote: before the CFV is posted, or by posting anything anywhere, or by sending e-mail to anyone but the votetaker. The voting procedure will be clearly described in the CFV when the time to vote arrives. Now is NOT the time to vote. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ REVISED RFD - end ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++